Spring RTS Engine

IMO vanguards are too good, they are too fast and can climb everything which is bad IMO

The main problem with rocko/hammer damage is that there is no effective l1 kbot counter to rockos at the moment, the only things that can catch them are peewees and due to their short range they take mass casualties while doing it, furthermore they arent much usefull for attacking any notable defence.

On the other hand, mabye this is good incentive to take vehicles...

what? vangaurds are sooo slow and theyre atv just like the kargie ^^

just becasue vangaurds take out a load of units in a game you were doesnt mean theyre unbalanced drone , you ever thought the person using them knew how to use them properly and microed them?
if they get caught undefeded by a small number of units they go down,
brawlers, emp bombers, normal bombers, pyros, zippers, and basically anything you can swarm them with counter vangaurds very well.
Also you have to spend 10000 metal and shitloads of e before you can even think about building them so they SHOULD be able to put a big dent in groups of level2 units like the ones you mentioned
leave vangaurds as they are please, there is absolutely no reason to change them they are fine.

vangaurds are fine. yes they take a lot of damage and take out a lot of units but they're not invincible. its not like its easier to take out a karganeth and its faster, all-terrain and fires faster, although it has a different weapon. the two work each other out. as far as their cost goes, i have no idea and can't check it since im at work.

there weapon does have a pretty nasty AoE and a tasty range, but as steve said thats what they are supposed to be at T3 they are immensly useful though!

lol. have you guys seen the costs of it? I presonally never build Razorbacks atm, they cost more than a vanguard, (Vanguards cost what? 60-70% of a razorback?) and a vanguard is much better at everything. If you decide to keep the stats where they are, please up the costs by 50% or something.

They're not _that_ microheavy either.. Its not like they die if anything gets close to them.

They're uberkillalltanks thatcan climb walls atm.

And, yes they're much harder to kill than kargies.

theyre also extremely slow, cant manauvre quickly and are very vulnerable to air and swarms.
If I remember they cost about 2300 metal?
Actually i forgot, razors and kargies are awsome at killing vangaurds.
I build razors or vangaurds depending on the situation, Van - bombard defences - razor direct base assault they both have their uses I cant say id always builsd a vangaurd over a razor back, it just depends on the situation, theyre both useful units for a fairly reasonable price, If I remember they cost about 2300 metal? and thats after youve paid the 10000 metal for the gantry, upping the cost of gantry units will make tech 3 even more rare than it is now ^^

You can honestly say they aren't uber when like 4 of them killed about 100 units? When they were moving?

drone ever thought about sending in a bunch of raider units against t3 bots that use a weapon that have MASSIVE aoe might not work very well
lemme guess your units were all clustered together
maybe try about taking them down in a more real way..

Drone_Fragger wrote:You can honestly say they aren't uber when like 4 of them killed about 100 units? When they were moving?

Show us the replay drone, I garuntee you the player who loses over 100 units to 4 vangaurds is either

1)AFK
2)A NEW PLAYER
3)STUPID

due to the fact they own swarms the best approach would be (IMO) :
penetrators with some t1 diversionary units (penetrators deal bonus damage to all T3 IIRC)
bulldog/reaper's
any air units

They pwn swarms of slow stuff like zues etc but not faster stuff, if I swarm them I create 2 or 3 groups and send them all from different angles to minimize losses
Berthas eat them for breakfast too

I demand to know why everyone is playerhating Drone.

And also, you don't think the vanguard is a bit too much bang for its buck?

Comp1337 wrote:
And also, you don't think the vanguard is a bit too much bang for its buck?

how much is a bb again?

no i dont, not after you pay 10000 metal and shit loads of e for the gantry and then spending a further 2500 metal per unit to build it.

A bb is bout 4000 metal i think krog

oh yeah i forgot, that post krog made about the rockos... hes right y'know they do need a little nerf and make the advanced fusion a more attractive option! ^^ read days post, it makes sense to me.

I was just in a few Vanguard heavy games this week, and I have to say, I agree with those who don't want it changed. For the cost and relative weakness to swarms (I brought one down with a small mixed force of L1 air and L2 kbots) it seems quite balanced to me, though, like all things, it's a pain to be on the recieving end of.

As for the Rocko issue, I really don't have an opinion either way. I've seen Rocko's play far too effectively in one advance, and then get murdered horribly in a slightly different one. Not enough data either way to sway me.

i think that a speed nerf of 5% or so would be fine

Min3mat wrote:i think that a speed nerf of 5% or so would be fine

Are we here speaking of rockos or of vanguards?

rockos!

Would making their speed equal that of Hammers be good enough, or too little?