Spring RTS Engine

you guys need to stop and think, you're running around in circles here. gadget wars (tm) is not a solution.

http://springrts.com/mantis/view.php?id=944

go go go implement now

Licho wrote:It has been changed, it convinced me to eventually add switch to disable map lua.

Individual engine users can then decide if they want map lua in their release or if they want user to have control (through lobby) or if they want to block it completely because of potential synced code hacks and abuses.

Even with LuaRules off, maps will retain ability to create lua effects, add units (since it does not need luarules) and players still have ability to disable units from lobby.

So, I thought that we agreed on a change, and not this.

If you do this, my last ~10 maps will break. They all use some form of gadgets- either as effects or even playable area restrictions.

Well, you're the one that opened the can of worms...

Beherith wrote:

Licho wrote:It has been changed, it convinced me to eventually add switch to disable map lua.

Individual engine users can then decide if they want map lua in their release or if they want user to have control (through lobby) or if they want to block it completely because of potential synced code hacks and abuses.

Even with LuaRules off, maps will retain ability to create lua effects, add units (since it does not need luarules) and players still have ability to disable units from lobby.

So, I thought that we agreed on a change, and not this.

If you do this, my last ~10 maps will break. They all use some form of gadgets- either as effects or even playable area restrictions.

They wont work without LuaRules? Effects sure keep working. And I dont mean this as something hardcoded, it would be switch.

Where are you using unit movement restrictions? Why its done using LuaRules and not typemap?

smoth wrote:why not? who knows maybe it will be a new and exciting creative outlet?

Firstly I dont know at all whatever would go well with CA. So why not design for BA, where I can design more specific gameplay. And theres even chance it might work with CA as well!


Licho, its to disallow issuing commands to a certain area at all.

Its so that aircraft cant be hacked around movement restricted zones.

all *a maps work fine for CA really if people dont add gadgets to intentionally fumble CA's economy there is no need for CA specific maps. If someone wants to make them they can do so if they please but they wouldnt be much different than maps made for BA.

So dont fumble the economy eh?
And dont add typemaps because that screws up the balance.
And dont add dont change gravity because it fucks our arty and stuff.
And dont change the hardness either, it screws with our cratering.
And dont make the height differences too big, because that also screws up ballistic units and units with conical and spherical ranges. But make the height differences big because it looks good.
Dont make the map all flat because it looks crappy, but make it totally flat cause of f2 cheating and crappy pathing.
Dont add variable value metal patches, they encourage undesired gameplay.

Oh, by the way, dont even bother to set any of these parameters, we will override them for you. After all we are making a mod so we must know best.

Beherith wrote:you do this, my last ~10 maps will break. They all use some form of gadgets- either as effects or even playable area restrictions.

Why did you make them use LuaRules instead of LuaGaia? If it was a requirement, then why, is Gaia too restricted? If it's because you didn't know better, but mods can still load the code if they want to.

Because it never was an issue wether I used gaia or rules. And noone ever suggested to use gaia.

your loss less people will play the map because your being unreasonable with a minor setting that hardly affects the map.

Its not like you have sleepless nights because people are playing Apophis with wind. I thought ud be happy people played your map at all.

Obviously not.

Im not being unreasonable. Its a very minor request.
And I couldnt care less if that map is played or not. If I would have cared that much about my maps getting played, I wouldnt have made maps at all.

JohannesH wrote:

smoth wrote:why not? who knows maybe it will be a new and exciting creative outlet?

Firstly I dont know at all whatever would go well with CA. So why not design for BA, where I can design more specific gameplay. And theres even chance it might work with CA as well!

because ba has dsd.. end of story. CA you have room for your map to gain popularity.

forb wrote:Well, you're the one that opened the can of worms...

you are not helping. Try to be more helpful and less flaming.

Beherith wrote:Because it never was an issue wether I used gaia or rules.

Well I guess you tested on only some things, because if you use Rules it won't work on mods without a gadget handler, or mods that have nonstandard gadget handlers.

Beherith wrote: And dont add typemaps because that screws up the balance.

Well, duh. And if you do make a typemap, at least be kind and allow it to be turned on/off.

And dont add dont change gravity because it fucks our arty and stuff.

Well if it's an asteroid map like this then gravity could be whatever. The mod could always override it if necessary.

And dont change the hardness either, it screws with our cratering.

That all depends. Is your hardness so soft that a simple arty shell is causing a crater? If so then that means that 20 minutes in the game is going to lag like dirty asshole because of pathing.

And dont make the height differences too big, because that also screws up ballistic units and units with conical and spherical ranges. But make the height differences big because it looks good.

Now this is just nonsensical. The height ranges used are up to you and you alone. But, height ranges that are too far apart will cause your map not to get played as much, because it does mess with ballistic balance and generally makes uberporc, ubereasy.

Dont make the map all flat because it looks crappy, but make it totally flat cause of f2 cheating and crappy pathing.

A fink doesn't cost much, worrying about f2 cheating is kind of nonsensical. If the mod is so worried about it, then they could just disable f2.

Dont add variable value metal patches, they encourage undesired gameplay.

That isn't true at all. However, if you do make variable value metal spots, it's always important to visually represent it on the texture map.

Oh, by the way, dont even bother to set any of these parameters, we will override them for you. After all we are making a mod so we must know best.

None of the things you mention here are being changed modside (except one or two perhaps in CA), but you're missing the entire point! Who gives a flying shit? You don't play CA, therefore you're never going to see any of these alterations and in the meantime, the map is still playable in CA. I don't see how having more people playing your map is making you lose? Jesus dude, you have a real stick up ur butt about this stuff when it really doesn't matter one iota, because you won't even ever see it unless you specifically want to. Good lord...

Can we stop with "BA community only plays DSD".
BA just has most of the "Casual spring players",those want soemthing familiar and not too intensive.
BA IS played on many other maps as well.
your just baiting flames.
*On the note of map lua:
Beherith why did you make those hills on the new map unpassable both by bombers and all terrain?
Are bombers overused in BA?are all-terrain units overused?
It could have been a unique map with some cool bomber raiding,instead it is just another regular 1v1 map,a very pretty one of course.
Why nerf units that are underpowered as it is?
The height-map had some potential for unique gameplay,i think its a shame.

I don't know, I'd be much more likely to finish any of the eighty incomplete maps on my drives if I thought the effort of doing my part would be at all respected.

what is it to be respected? What is wrong for "Art for art's sake." Even if it is only played once it was played and has lived if only for a moment.

smoth wrote:what is it to be respected? What is wrong for "Art for art's sake." Even if it is only played once it was played and has lived if only for a moment.

Some people enjoy making maps some dont.it's about fun.
I made some maps,not the best looking or most polished,but i made them cause i wanted the gameplay they provide and was bored of what we have.
I also made them cause i just felt like creating something even if it wasn't perfect.
If Neddie writes what he wrote its probably because(hope im not being too presumptuous) he just doesn't enjoy making maps that much and prefers to do something else.