Spring RTS Engine

Aun wrote:

Cabbage wrote:arn't any god units or god guns! Kroggies and Orchones suffer 3x damage to BLOD's! They can get Dugunned by coms, brawlered, swarmed by cheap units.... They are awful for attacking a well defended base. I can count the number of times i've seen them used in a proper game on one hand....

So, this would make the lvl3 superunits horribly underpowered and pointless? They need a beef!

oh no no no... no beefing!

Cabbage wrote:arn't any god units or god guns! Kroggies and Orchones suffer 3x damage to BLOD's! They can get Dugunned by coms, brawlered, swarmed by cheap units.... They are awful for attacking a well defended base. I can count the number of times i've seen them used in a proper game on one hand....

Please go play the lastest version, and not just once or twice, play lots of games against diffrent opponents, come play with steve, machio, myself etc.

Don't play speedmetal.... I'm sure you'll understand why everyone is being so hostile if you did this, please go have a week or so of playing proper games and then come back, you'll see why your posts are a bit silly...

agreed, I'll give a game or two today or tomorrow...

I'm 100% sure some of my statements will change...

but again, I'm 99% perma-stuck on OTA.. and it's gonna take some adjustment to get back in the swing again... its been like 2 months since I REALLY got a game of AA going...

been busy with summer school, finishing out my bachelors degree, and yeah... stuff..

money sucks..

There is nothihng wrong with jammers, They are easy to scout with peepers / spy's. They easily die, and good players DO use them, it forces your enemy to use resorces scouting (though not much) Their range is atleast 1/3 smaller than any version you're probably referring to, and they only jam enemy attacks if you're stupid enough to stick them right on your front line...

And please, why comment on things if you havent even played the lastest versions? Snipers are NOT fast, they have a very slow rate of fire, probably one of the slowest, they do have a long range (hence being called snipers...) but there are plenty of things that outrange them still, and yes they have a fairly powerful shot, but again, they are SNIPERS and have a slow fire rate. They are not atall tough, they have less health than most L1 kbots..

How are they not speciallised? anyone who charges them into someones front line will regret it, they are both cloakable AND stealthy...

I know i sound a little bit harsh, but this kind of thing has happend before :

Caydr is easily influenced and we must protect him ^^

well.. I'm just getting some crap off my chest that has built up about AA over like the last 14 months...

I hope you understand...

I do hate the regen of ALL units though...

and DO hate the range of all the constructors... and the fact they made const airplanes build fast...

lol, remember the Adv. Construction Ground/Naval seaplanes?? lol... they were the FASTEST building unit out there... like 95% as fast as the commie...

and you could put like 2087326433264 of them on the same factory...

but yeah, gimmie an hour or so, and I'll give you a game... gotta go home from work first... I get off in a few mins

@ LathanStanley:
PLEASE At least test the current version before complaining about thing which are no longer (or never?) implemented. Some more posts and I will will bite in my table.

And why cant people keep in mind that
AA != original TA from 1997 with improved graphics

I realy like the fact, that there are a lot of different strategies and unittypes you can shoose from. (People who don't like a game where you have to scout what the emeny is doing should go for another game.)

In my oppinion this mod has only one real problem:
Noobs see that there a very powerfull units and defences. Then they try to pork, build fussionfarms and metal-generators and like to spamm these powerfull units (lvl3 for example). Then they realize this will not work for over 95% and they begin complaining.

Pepole, he never had a cringe about the balance, and he never said that he wanted to make it OTA. He said he wanted this and this changed, so it would be better.



BTW, Pepole keep saying that "it's not broken, so you don't have to fix it." It's not broken, but we can damn well IMPROVE IT, and some changes would make it better.



Like removing autoheal for example.




BTW i set up a channel for balance discussion... join #aa_balance!

Yes but many complaints are based on older versions so they may have been fixed already. It doesn't make sense to complain about past issues, else the dev might assume the problems have resurfaced after being fixed some time ago.

Some of his complaints were about balancing, like the supposedly overpowered L3 units (when everyone tells you AA's super units are waaaay too expensive for what they offer) or the mega fusion.

About the autoheal, Spring gives a default autoheal of 5-6 HP per second when idle (i.e. not hit for a few seconds). That can be disabled but I still wonder why it's on by default. Autoheal should be a feature the modder has to enable per unit, not disable. Especially since it makes no sense to give it a fixed regen rate, units can vary a lot in hitpoints.

LathanStanley wrote:I do hate the regen of ALL units though...

It only applies when idle, and is rarely a major factor. Often a unit will either be at full health, dead, or enter combat again before the autoheal kicks in. It only really matters in the early game, when you're beating off L1 attacks on your base.

LathanStanley wrote:and DO hate the range of all the constructors... and the fact they made const airplanes build fast...

lol, remember the Adv. Construction Ground/Naval seaplanes?? lol... they were the FASTEST building unit out there... like 95% as fast as the commie...

Arm Commander Nano Speed: 300
Arm Con KBot Nano Speed: 70
Arm Con Aircraft Nano Speed: 50 (Insert sarcasm here.)
Arm FARK Nano Speed: 120
Arm Adv Con KBot Nano Speed: 140
Arm Adv Con Aircraft Nano Speed: 100
Arm Con Seaplane Nano Speed: 200

As for the constructor range... Eh, whatever.

The convehs have 100 and 200, for reference.

neddiedrow wrote:I'm speaking in terms of the ideal L3, not the current one. Who even uses the current one? If you have the resources the right units are obscenely powerful, but a waste of resources. If you don't have the resources it doesn't matter. I would like to see a better L3, and I have been working out replacement units to propose, that was just one of my statements in relation to it.

It doesn't get used very often. Why? Because they're powerful, specialized (assault is a specialization), expensive units. They would theoretically be useful in a very close game, and they are useful when properly deployed in big team games.

Why? A mob of Farks costs lots and is bomber bait.

It's then illogical for the mod to support it. Oh, and it's easier to defend a single factory with 80 constructors aiding than the four factories with nineteen/twenty each you would have in a more rational system to produce the same output.

No it's not. It's a trade-off. Yes, it's easier to support a single factory with a lot of constructors. But it's also riskier, and hardly easier to defend. Factories have a lot more HP than cons, so more bombers have to get through to destroy them. A swarm of cons is going to take a lot of damage from even a handful of bombers, as they'll hit multiple cons, etc.

And why's it "more rational" to build more factories? Massive con assist swarms were always a big part of TA, and at least Caydr's gotten rid of the Con Aircraft clouds.

The one on the Sea is many times more useful due to the terrain. The one on land can be transported with Air.

But the land bertha's still horrendously expensive and vulnerable, and you've got to invest in the L3 factory to get it. And the sea balance is borked anyway - avoid maps with water, you'll be much happier.

You shouldn't get Fusion Farms on any sane map. If you do... Bomber time!

Once again, it's then illogical for the mod to support them. As they are they can resist too much damage for their placement. And I must return to the statement that it is much easier to protect a single area than many.

Once again... No, it's not. It's a risk/reward trade-off. And since fusions go up with a big bang...

And as I said before - you should never see "fusion farms" on any non-metal map, except maybe in really massive team games.

No, they would simply be... as slow as slightly cooler molasses - they aren't there for attacks anyway. They're a rolling component of a defensive line.

Except now Sumos are barely fast enough to get where they want to go in time.

It's not impossible, you're just being difficult for the purposes of rejecting possible change. I've done it, and it's made everything so simple. A targeting station and - point and click. Oh, and when an area disappears, you know it has been jammed. Which means something worth getting rid of is there, if nothing else, the jammer.

Then please explain why we almost never see them in games with skilled players?

LathanStanley wrote:and DO hate the range of all the constructors... and the fact they made const airplanes build fast...

Or, if you're complaining about the rate you can produce a con aircraft:

Arm Con Aircraft buildtime: 8844
Arm Con KBot buildtime: 3453

Both L1 factories have identical nanospeeds.

this is the stastic I'm bitching about:

Arm Con Seaplane Nano Speed: 200

thats faster than ANY posted there, and twice as fast as a con vehicle.. and as fast as an advanced con vehicle.. (which used to be the fastest, with the LARGEST ground tile, so that it is the HARDEST to stack...



besides... what DIFFERENCE does a factory build time REALLY make anyways? it ONLY comes into play when you aren't nanostalling, and how often is that??? hah.

*scarcasim*

LathanStanley wrote:thats faster than ANY posted there, and twice as fast as a con vehicle.. and as fast as an advanced con vehicle.. (which used to be the fastest, with the LARGEST ground tile, so that it is the HARDEST to stack...

IIRC, the advanced con vehicle was never larger than the regular con vehicle. And it was never an efficient source of build power. I think con aircraft swarms were significantly more efficient.

The Con Seaplane is only buildable if there's water on the map. As has been established many times, AA's water balance is screwed up. This includes Seaplanes.

besides... what DIFFERENCE does a factory build time REALLY make anyways? it ONLY comes into play when you aren't nanostalling, and how often is that??? hah.

.... You've very obviously never played AA. How about you go play a few games, watch the Hellspawn V Jazz replay, and come back when you actually know what you're talking about, K?

(For the record, factories provide as much buildpower as the best constructor of their level. That's hardly insignificant.)

First of all, machio, don't talk to me as though I have never played AA in spring. I used to play nothing But AA in spring, bhut the honest truth is that AA really isn't fun anymore.

Back in the early days it was fun. Now you have maybe 1 fun game in 5. To me that denotes an issue.

Honestly I think AA would do well with a "From the ground UP" re-balance. The reason I say this is because atm the balance is held together by frayed shoestrings, and they are drawing very taut.

For balance it would be advantageous to use ota as a base, and then modify as needed to fit to spring. imo.

Forboding Angel wrote:Back in the early days it was fun. Now you have maybe 1 fun game in 5. To me that denotes an issue.

Yes. Specifically:

1) You played too much AA.

2) A lot of people who play AA are bad at it, which makes team games very frustrating.

3) A lot of popular maps are actually very poorly-suited to AA.

Forboding Angel Wrote:

For balance it would be advantageous to use ota as a base, and then modify as needed to fit to spring. imo.

AA is fine as it is, if you want a diffrent TA mod, go make one..

It hasn't actualy changed that much since you were playing. Slight ajustments to build times, damages and health values are hardly radical..

I'm orf down the pub!

http://www.unknown-files.net/browse.php?dlid=1545

haven't i've been produtive?

Edit: Whoops.. 2.1 instead of 2.11... fixed.

Egarwaen wrote:

Forboding Angel wrote:Back in the early days it was fun. Now you have maybe 1 fun game in 5. To me that denotes an issue.

Yes. Specifically:

1) You played too much AA.

2) A lot of people who play AA are bad at it, which makes team games very frustrating.

3) A lot of popular maps are actually very poorly-suited to AA.

Do not make the huge mistake of thinking that I am not good at AA. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I've lost any ability.

Dragon45 might be able to explain in a bit more detail (poor bastard had some crap teammates) ;p

BTW, ak farms ftw ;p

Forboding Angel wrote:Do not make the huge mistake of thinking that I am not good at AA. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I've lost any ability.

Not saying that. I'm saying that AA is frustrating to play compared to, say, Gundam or EE because there's such a wide range of skill levels. If everyone in a game is about the same skill level, it's fun. If someone is much, much better or much, much worse (IE, the kind that tries to L3 fast-tech, or the kind that porcs in their "base" and never, EVER expands) then it gets frustrating fast.