Spring RTS Engine

^Yeah, it should make sense that hammers are faster. Hammers are a general combat unit, rockos are support.

Hmmm. I have to disagree. I like grouping my hammers and rockos together, so making their speeds significantly different would break those groups. I'd rather just see a slight nerf on rockos. The current approach is rockos=small squads, hammers=large forces, but even in large numbers the rockos seem a better deal because the hammers just don't do enough damage even with their more poolable weaponfire. Even on rough terrain the rockos are able to fire from far enough range that they aren't too inhibited by the slope. Only in dense wreckage fields do hammers really shine, and most really nasty wreckage fields don't seem to happen until L2.

edit: imho, best approach is a slight nerf in damage output of rockos. If unpopular, their cost could be reduced correspondingly - remember that there is a finite number of rockos that are effective in a single fight, so reducing their cost&effectiveness per unit means that you hit that limit more quickly and have to switch to hammers.

*calls Time-Out on the rocko discussion*

sry to switch gears away from the whole lvl1 rocket vs. lvl1 plasma bots but whats with Arm's lvl 3 amphib k-bot not having a second weapon. if the speed is suppose to make up for it it doesn't. i notice the model itself has that extra turret thingy on the top. why not give it a toned down version of the Razorback's blaster weapon? Something, as right now with its speed it doesn't have enough time to aim and fire at targerts that pass it by.

Ill admit i was tryin to break past two doomsday's plus vipers, so its not like they alone would have done it but still a little boost to them would be nice.

*stands back so that the rocko war can begin again*

Equal speeds on the Rocko and Hammer/Thud would be nice, maybe combined with a small cost decrease for the Hammer?

j5mello wrote:*calls Time-Out on the rocko discussion*

sry to switch gears away from the whole lvl1 rocket vs. lvl1 plasma bots but whats with Arm's lvl 3 amphib k-bot not having a second weapon. if the speed is suppose to make up for it it doesn't. i notice the model itself has that extra turret thingy on the top. why not give it a toned down version of the Razorback's blaster weapon? Something, as right now with its speed it doesn't have enough time to aim and fire at targerts that pass it by.

Ill admit i was tryin to break past two doomsday's plus vipers, so its not like they alone would have done it but still a little boost to them would be nice.

*stands back so that the rocko war can begin again*

Well, firstly, i don't think it's meant as an direct assault unit as Core's shiva is...

secondly, i would belive the cost is much cheaper, meaing a much more cheaper price, but i'm to lazy to find out thou.

And third, have you tried self destucting one of those things? They blow up almost as much as a crawling bomb! Sleksa used one to blow up my airplant at SSB.

Combiend, you get a higly spammebole extremly fast crawling bomb. Used correcly, i think you could get ALOT of damage done with em.

One of my friends was picking up enemy incomming Shivas with air transports and flying them over the enemies defences. Lollingest thing i've heard in ages.

Them gunships are lethal, the ARM flak resistant one wrecks entire armies in groups of 30 or more

Well, i would call a group of 30 an army by itself, so hardly a surprise.

While we are discussing the amphib units, i would just like to state that they are horribly in-effective, especially the vehicles. The reason is, that all the amphib tanks and bots move so extremely slow, and their firepower and armor doesnt quite make up for it. The two amphib bots are better, but also the most expensive amphib units.

I think a buff for the little amphib bots and the amphi tanks in general would be good.

Them gunships are lethal, the ARM flak resistant one wrecks entire armies in groups of 30 or more

gunships form nice pulks and 2 or 3 hits by mercury can kill 30 gunships :)

Okay anybody who thinks rockos are NOT overpowered
il show you some replays

I dont think they are overpowered anymore.
Ergawaens argument won me over, It is accurate(pws really do 30 dps, try it out!), in context and compares two closely related units, both in function, damage, range and cost, with a masterful comparison of stats as if they were interchangeable on a 1:1 ratio.
GG AA

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

SARCASM WORKS REALLY WELL ON THE INTENET! NO, REALLY! IT DOES!


>.>

krogothe wrote:I dont think they are overpowered anymore.
Ergawaens argument won me over, It is accurate(pws really do 30 dps, try it out!), in context and compares two closely related units, both in function, damage, range and cost, with a masterful comparison of stats as if they were interchangeable on a 1:1 ratio.
GG AA

Yes, but I can spit further than Peewees can shoot.

sigh...

Day wrote:Okay anybody who thinks rockos are NOT overpowered
il show you some replays

Please do.

Oh, and krogothe, I apologize. It's totally unreasonable for me to expect some kind of evidence or justification to be presented for proposed balance changes. Caydr should obviously just make any change anyone posts in this thread, because they'll all be good, and won't just be some n00b who got owned by someone using a unit well and wants it nerfed instead of learning how to counter it. (Like the Guardian stuff earlier) And we all know that every balance issue you post is serious. After all, fighters really did wind up being fantastically overpowered in 1.5 just like you predicted, to the point that no-one built anything but fighter swarms, right?

... Oh wait.

rocko pewe hammer balance is very good atm. They all have their uses and i love it.

Rocko is a bit more usefull at start but hammer after that. Dont touch lvl1 kbots, they seem perfect

Imo dont do any big balance changes for next ver. Just fix the Firestorm and maybe look over the vanguard as its a anti-everything-exept-air tank. Its cheap too >.<

Seems the hammer/rocko thing is moot.

Does vanguard have high traj? I forget.

Marauder's speed was a major advantage in OTA, but Spring is subtly different in the speeds that units move, etc. It's possible it's not getting what it deserves, so I'll check it. It's not intended as a heavy unit though, more like Maverick's big brother who happens to be a crazyassed fast running machine.

Also, what are your thoughts on Reaper/Bulldog/Goliath balance?

Noted everything else. I'll post a tentative changelog in the near future when I get the chance.

Caydr wrote:
Does vanguard have high traj? I forget.

nope

Thats another thing. Make the high traj only. I've seen a massive mixes assualt of Zuesses, Peewees, Fidos and Mavericks completly destoryed by about 1/4 the metal cost in Vanguards