Spring RTS Engine

Wartender wrote:native linux version or gtfo.... *sigh* ;-;

windows or gtfo

Doesn't look entertaining regardless of platform. If I want the SC experience I still have three copies of SC.

word on the street is that SC2 balance is pretty shitty right now, just comes down to marauder/roach spam

Hey guys,
I just want to let you all know that I'm in the SC2 BETA for a while now, I'm playing as zerg and the game kicks ass, even tho there's still some balance issues they're all very minor. That myth about marauders and roaches being OP is because current players are too retarded to realize that in SC2 hardcounters actually really counter effectively those opposing units.
Now for my ePeen enlargement: I am in Gold League ranked #1 and just waiting to be transferred to Platinum League any time now.
If someone can watch replays I could possibly post some of my epic games but I don't really have the computer to record any replays myself...

The game is pretty awesome but I do feel Blizzard made a few mistakes here and there on what they did change and what they didn't, but hey, not everyone can have their own personal Starcraft 2 like they want it to be, now can they?

FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I want beta key

Raghna wrote:Hey guys,
I just want to let you all know that I'm in the SC2 BETA for a while now, I'm playing as zerg and the game kicks ass, even tho there's still some balance issues they're all very minor. That myth about marauders and roaches being OP is because current players are too retarded to realize that in SC2 hardcounters actually really counter effectively those opposing units.
Now for my ePeen enlargement: I am in Gold League ranked #1 and just waiting to be transferred to Platinum League any time now.
If someone can watch replays I could possibly post some of my epic games but I don't really have the computer to record any replays myself...

The game is pretty awesome but I do feel Blizzard made a few mistakes here and there on what they did change and what they didn't, but hey, not everyone can have their own personal Starcraft 2 like they want it to be, now can they?

nick.identifier?

Thats why they do a beta for half a year to balance everything.
I dont think blizzard makes mistakes they are too perfectionistic for that.

My friend gave me access to his beta key and I played 2 games against bots and realized that they are still using game mechanics from one of the first ever RTS games and haven't evolved or improved at all.

Still use farms (WC1, 1994), still can't queue build orders while researching(been like that since WC2, 1996), still can't queue orders on unfinished buildings(WC2), still no proper patrol, still no proper build or order queues, NO ZOOM, units still can't move while firing, etc. etc. I'm not even going to comment on gameplay because that's mostly a matter of opinion, but it's 2010 and there is no excuse to still run RTS games on these archaic systems that were put together 16 years ago because of technical limitations, those limitations are gone now but Blizzard isn't improving their mechanics at all, in terms of mechanics this game runs almost identical to WC2, a game made 14 years ago. The resources, buildings, queue orders, everything, it's practically a carbon-copy of WC2, straight down to the farms and town halls.


Blizzard if you're going to make a sequel to a 13 year old game, even if you are going to leave the gameplay the same, for the love of god at least bring the technical functionality up to the times a little bit, there are almost NO usability improvements over SC, the only ones I'm aware of being some slight hotkey micro improvements, and the ability to queue buildings. If there are any others that's great, but they need to make BIGGER and more NOTICEABLE ones.


tl;dr, not only sc2 a gameplay clone, but in fact everything is cloned except for graphics, it still plays like the behind-the-times RTS that it was 13 years ago.

Hobo Joe wrote:Still use farms (WC1, 1994), still can't queue build orders while researching(been like that since WC2, 1996), still can't queue orders on unfinished buildings(WC2), still no proper patrol, still no proper build or order queues, NO ZOOM, units still can't move while firing, etc. etc.

Hobo Joe wrote:I'm not even going to comment on gameplay because that's mostly a matter of opinion

Wait so everything you mentioned above is NOT gameplay?

The fact the game doesn't play itself like f.e. widgetized spring is part of the gameplay. Any automation beyond what is permitted by vanilla game is considered cheating online.

You need to be able to play fast and click even faster to be good. That's the gameplay. And that's how a lot of people like it.

(also the queuing patrol/other commands is perfectly functional, hold shift)

Hobo Joe wrote:it's 2010 and there is no excuse to still run RTS games on these archaic systems that were put together 16 years ago because of technical limitations, those limitations are gone now but

What archaic systems due to limitations are you talking about in relation to starcraft2?

Regret wrote:You need to be able to play fast and click even faster to be good. That's the gameplay. And that's how a lot of people like it.

A game needing a lot of attention in itself is not a bad thing but imho its overemphasized to the point of stupidity. People will spam out way more commands than is necessary, things like selection boxes over constructors at the game start, for no other reason than to increase their apm.

And when people judge how pro someone is, they usually compare apm first. As though someone couldn't have a high apm and still suck. Seriously, I sometimes wonder if it isn't really a game but just a graphical interface to compare keyboard mashrates.

(rant over-exaggerated for humorous intent)

luckywaldo7 wrote:A game needing a lot of attention in itself is not a bad thing but imho its overemphasized to the point of stupidity. People will spam out way more commands than is necessary, things like selection boxes over constructors at the game start, for no other reason than to increase their apm.

And when people judge how pro someone is, they usually compare apm first. As though someone couldn't have a high apm and still suck. Seriously, I sometimes wonder if it isn't really a game but just a graphical interface to compare keyboard mashrates.

(rant over-exaggerated for humorous intent)

:<

I spam commands at game start in spring? The point of that should be pretty obvious but guess not...

Reaction speed, mouse accuracy and speed, knowing right times to split your attention, etc. all that matters in any rts worth shit, its just unavoidable. Late game BA on a big map is ridiculously demanding mechanically as well

Regret wrote: Wait so everything you mentioned above is NOT gameplay?

The fact the game doesn't play itself like f.e. widgetized spring is part of the gameplay. Any automation beyond what is permitted by vanilla game is considered cheating online.

You need to be able to play fast and click even faster to be good. That's the gameplay. And that's how a lot of people like it.

It SHOULD be vanilla. I didn't expect the game to be 'widgetized' or have a billion nice little things like Spring does, but I DID expect very basic usability improvements. Like the fact that you still can't queue units on your barracks while it's doing research - are they reusing old code or something? Is there REALLY any reason to leave that? The only reason is plain and simply - apm. The game forces you to click 5 times more than you should over retarded things like this, I understand that APM is basically the foundation of SC, but really, this?

Regret wrote:(also the queuing patrol/other commands is perfectly functional, hold shift)

What archaic systems due to limitations are you talking about in relation to starcraft2?

Mostly the things I mentioned above. Farms were made to keep the number of units down, and yes I know leaving it was partially a design decision, and it's not exactly a unit-spam game like BA and similar often is, but there are better ways to go about that.

luckywaldo7 wrote:A game needing a lot of attention in itself is not a bad thing but imho its overemphasized to the point of stupidity. People will spam out way more commands than is necessary, things like selection boxes over constructors at the game start, for no other reason than to increase their apm.

And when people judge how pro someone is, they usually compare apm first. As though someone couldn't have a high apm and still suck. Seriously, I sometimes wonder if it isn't really a game but just a graphical interface to compare keyboard mashrates.

Exactly. There are a lot of things in this game that are simply there so you have to click more. For example, in sc2 you give a build order, go micro something else for a minute, come back, queue research, go micro something else for a minute, then queue units. In any RTS that wasn't mentally retarded you would just make 3 clicks when you built the building and let it all finish and come back when it's done.

That's just one example, there are plenty of others. Like waldo said, the game is basically built on apm for the sake of apm.

JohannesH wrote:I spam commands at game start in spring? The point of that should be pretty obvious but guess not...

Reaction speed, mouse accuracy and speed, knowing right times to split your attention, etc. all that matters in any rts worth shit, its just unavoidable. Late game BA on a big map is ridiculously demanding mechanically as well

Oh of course, but in that case it actually makes sense. Managing the front line(or front lines in many cases) while keeping up eco and production and expansion, it's a ton of shit to keep tabs on and keep moving, the difference is that in Starcraft, the controls(or lack thereof) force you to click a ton of stuff when you shouldn't need to. In order to be a truly 'pro' player you have to have insane apm, not because there's more going on in SC than in other RTS games, (less in many cases) but simply because you have to watch everything way more closely and click it more.

Regret wrote: nick.identifier?

Raghna.rok

Dude, I can not for the life of me figure out zerg. I usually play random 'cause I want to eventually learn all the races, and when I play it usually comes down to: Did I random terran? I win. Did I random protoss? Depends on opponent. Did I random zerg? I lose hard.

sc2 is sooo good

zerg>all
winbuild: 6pool into win

maek maek maek m&m

To Regret's request:
http://www.mediafire.com/?z2vzymmmyym

SPOILER:

note: This is in no way me trying to prove superiority over my opponent, I believe I won this due to pure luck and if it would be done again, I'm sure I would've lost. It's just a fun game to watch.

-_-