Spring RTS Engine

that you were trying to laugh at me saying that kbots arent useful by writting another "stupid idea".

DZHIBRISH wrote:sniper should be nerfd just a little bit and than tested to se how it does and sumo should be nerfed as well or better yet made more expensive,to what extent thats up to noize i guess..... t2 arty should be much more expensive trmor should be less expensive..fatboty is actually pertty balanced id say..people just dont use it cause its not cool :)has an ugly model...ofcourse vs snipers he stand no chance.. expecially cause u can build about 3 snipers with the metal you need to build a fatboy.. of course snipers need energy.

Iemphesize te arty again..costs about 300 metal shoots straight and pretty fast..tremor costs 2300 metal.. shoots high trajectory.....judt dont make long range units better ..instead nerf t2 arty.. better to have a not so good arsenal of long range weapons than an oped one..

Arty is not OP in BA.

DZHIBRISH wrote:fatboty is actually pertty balanced

nerf t2 arty

itt DZHIBRISH loses all credibility

Sleksa wrote:

Kbots benefit greatly from micro, esp rocko/thud- meaning they can be very hard for a player with poor micro skills to use, but are quite effective in the hands of skilled player.

On the economic side, kbots have better workertime (nanopower), better reclaim, res, healing and a cheaper fac. This makes them the best choice for going early air (but still wanting an econ), going quick hover, as well as being the natural choice on greenfields etc.

these are the reasons.

veh is very easy to get results with little micro, but good players can pull up amazing things with kbots.

And you will leave the CORE KBots as they are just to be used by the few micro-highskillers? :)

Playing against KAI and getting raped by early Warriors brought me to this point. I built a KBot lab on IslandParadiseV2 since you need them to get to the mex plateaus quickly (not going all the way round with vehicle cons). Then I wanted to defend vs. the KAI Warriors, 1300hp, 183dps, 330 range, no chance.

Ok, its hard to counter them with CORE vehicles, too. Since they are all ballistic and with their lower dps don't hit as often as the Warriors. The only chance seems to be a mass of gators. Last resort?

it costs 250 metal!!!thats about 8 arties instead of a tremor..
they are so cheap...

KingRaptor wrote:

DZHIBRISH wrote:fatboty is actually pertty balanced

nerf t2 arty

itt DZHIBRISH loses all credibility

lol.

And you will leave the CORE KBots as they are just to be used by the few micro-highskillers? :)

Early warriors are one of the worst things you can possibly do with arm kbot. Their Energy costs are insanely high, so you need a lot of solar/wind to make more than a few of them without stalling heavily.

as core kbot, i'd just spam a mix of rockos and thuds, and then try to outrange them while shooting back from max.range

Ok, its hard to counter them with CORE vehicles, too. Since they are all ballistic and with their lower dps don't hit as often as the Warriors. The only chance seems to be a mass of gators. Last resort?

i havent really seen any players use warriors that effectively against veh. my suggestion would be slashers if you are in a "trench war" situation, and levelers and gators otherwise.

And you will leave the CORE KBots as they are just to be used by the few micro-highskillers? :)

you want to disregard the "high skilled microers" so it will be easier for you? Personally i like core bots more than arm's

He wants kbots to be accessible to everyone, not just the best players.

KDR_11k wrote:He wants kbots to be accessible to everyone, not just the best players.

not possible without best players then abusing it . BA balance must be aimed for high skill lvl players. I dont care about other mods though, they can be noob heaven.

who said that skilled players have an adg with kbots!!thats nonsense.
skilled players have an edge with everything!!
and they too mostly play with vehicles.I dont understand how anyone playng the game alot can say it is not so...

reminder:t2 arty... 250 metal...oped...do something about it.
Imagine say a t2 confrontation why build pop up if a 250 metal artys can come and own them...seriously.. the only thing to counter with are artys..
or of course ...snipers..that again make t2 defences fold like napkins..even techyon annihilators and dds..

DZHIBRISH wrote:reminder:t2 arty... 250 metal...oped...do something about it.

10 Lugers with LOS will take up to 50% losses against half their number in Stumpies.
5 Lugers with LOS can lose to own number in peewees.

What kind of high quality pot are you smoking?

ya lets compare units by putting them head to head against each other.. ya thats smart.. that simulates real game condition..not!!t2 arties are not loners...they are always with defences..
only complete noobs will build arties and send them alone.. pewess..heh if u have 6-7 arties shooting at incoming peewees from afar you wont have many peewees left if at all..plus t2 arties are usually escorted with a few tanks and maybe t2 def, plus they can scatter and they can move back..
So its not as simple.Next time please give an example that actually applies to real gameplay and not some hypothetical situation where peewees just drop from the sky near t2 arties.. what you could say is..ok t2 arty dont deal that much dmg...but i say they are still cheap... for a t2 eco 250 is nothing...they should cost more.. perhaps up their cost to 400..
and try it out..
If you compare t2 arties with tremors they out do it by far.. first of all it takes you so much time to buidl a tremor.. by that time the other team mught already win the gaem.. wheres arties are cheap so you build one fast and immidetly start shelling the enemy dealing dmg and moral pressure.By the time someone build a tremor he will have his whole defensive line wrecked by t2 arties..

If you're in a firefight, Bulldogs have almost as much DPS per cost and more than twice the HP/cost.

Lugers are good at what they are meant to do, which is shell enemy porc from afar. They go down the moment something comes near them and starts shooting.

Whining about Lugers being OP when they have lousy HP, questionable DPS/cost and they don't even have a particularly exceptional range just shows you don't understand how to play the game.

first of all bulldogs get owned by defensive turrets cause they cant outrange them and they cost 800+ metal thats 3+ t2 arties..and arties if standing near t2 porc wont get hurt at all while attacking bulldogs get damaged and wrecked..


You cant just compare stats,that what you dont understand raptor.fact is t2 arties cost like a t1 warrior.. but at t2 fights warriors are shit...worthless..especially when its a vehicles fight...anyways when comparing units you have to take into account other things like when are they available in game and their impact in that stage ...

DZHIBRISH wrote:first of all bulldogs get owned by defensive turrets cause they cant outrange them and they cost 800+ metal thats 3+ t2 arties..and arties if standing near t2 porc wont get hurt at all while attacking bulldogs get damaged and wrecked..


You cant just compare stats,that what you dont understand raptor.fact is t2 arties cost like a t1 warrior.. but at t2 fights warriors are shit...worthless..especially when its a vehicles fight...anyways when comparing units you have to take into account other things like when are they available in game and their impact in that stage ...

upload some replays where you own someone using defences and t2 arty

DZHIBRISH wrote:plus they can scatter and they can move back..

lugar don't shoot backwards

Also:

Sleksa wrote:

DZHIBRISH wrote:first of all bulldogs get owned by defensive turrets cause they cant outrange them and they cost 800+ metal thats 3+ t2 arties..and arties if standing near t2 porc wont get hurt at all while attacking bulldogs get damaged and wrecked..


You cant just compare stats,that what you dont understand raptor.fact is t2 arties cost like a t1 warrior.. but at t2 fights warriors are shit...worthless..especially when its a vehicles fight...anyways when comparing units you have to take into account other things like when are they available in game and their impact in that stage ...

upload some replays where you own someone using defences and t2 arty

Unsupported arty being rushed is an invalid situation and arty camping all day near friendly porc isn't?

KingRaptor wrote:

DZHIBRISH wrote:plus they can scatter and they can move back..

lugar don't shoot backwards

Also:

Sleksa wrote:

DZHIBRISH wrote:first of all bulldogs get owned by defensive turrets cause they cant outrange them and they cost 800+ metal thats 3+ t2 arties..and arties if standing near t2 porc wont get hurt at all while attacking bulldogs get damaged and wrecked..


You cant just compare stats,that what you dont understand raptor.fact is t2 arties cost like a t1 warrior.. but at t2 fights warriors are shit...worthless..especially when its a vehicles fight...anyways when comparing units you have to take into account other things like when are they available in game and their impact in that stage ...

upload some replays where you own someone using defences and t2 arty

Unsupported arty being rushed is an invalid situation and arty camping all day near friendly porc isn't?

well any replay where you own someoen with t2 arty is ok.

Actually, I find Balanced Annihilation incredibly forgiving for the new player given that he or she has an ounce of mathematics and basic strategy under the belt. Higher level play is often a matter of upping reaction time and phasing out inefficient solutions to specific situations - in other words, practicing logic in a tactical view.

Everything on the subject of mobile artillery thus far seems to boil down to some simple points...

Artillery units are designed to fire upon fixed and/or entrenched targets. They are effective in this role, but ineffective in direct combat. They are cheap but require support and skill to use effectively.

Sounds correct to me.

So, will somebody discuss the Catalyst? The range increase has turned it from a questionably useless fixed weapon to an absurdly useful fixed weapon. The only mitigating factor is the fact that the Catalyst does not achieve high altitude and thus can be deflected via terrain.

ffs all im saying make t2 arty cost 400 metal instead of 250...

DZHIBRISH wrote:ffs all im saying make t2 arty cost 400 metal instead of 250...

show the replays where you own someone by spamming t2 arty

neddiedrow wrote:So, will somebody discuss the Catalyst? The range increase has turned it from a questionably useless fixed weapon to an absurdly useful fixed weapon. The only mitigating factor is the fact that the Catalyst does not achieve high altitude and thus can be deflected via terrain.

I'm very happy with this - aren't you? Though I still think it should have the same range as Arms Detonator which still has a bit more. As you said the Catalyst was useless with the old range and so I like it with its new range as it was something I was asking for. In comparison to Arm's EMP-Rockets its advantage is that it can destroy buidlings and not just EMP them. That's true but the Catalyst is still inferior imo. I think the main reason for those two buildings is to get rid of Anti-Nukes or other defenses and here Arm still has the advantage that they need only one rocket per Silo and not two. Arm also might have some effect on an advancing Juggernaut and really can piss off your defensive line as the EMP-range is quite high / even things like Doomsdays get shut down which will only laugh at an incoming Catalyst rocket. So if you really want to complain about the Catalyst, complain about the Detonator too...