Spring RTS Engine

Felix the Cat wrote:

ZellSF wrote:Doesn't the current 1944 mod for Spring use nanolathes?

Nope.

BTW, nobody is impressed with your SupCom fanboyism. We know you like it, but there's no way in hell you're going to convince us that SupCom is conclusively and factually better than Spring. If you're going to rant about how omgzorz teh awezomez!!!!1 SupCom is, would you please take one of two options:
Option 1: Don't put down Spring in your rant.
Option 2: Take it to the GPG forums.

I'd actually rather that you take option 1, keep ranting here, just change your rants from "SupCom is so much better than Spring" to "SupCom is good". You wouldn't piss off nearly so many people. After all, this is the Spring forum.

heh, it's the opposite at the supcom forums.
one person: spring is better than supcom!

everyone else: STFU noob! go home and play your 'game' made by 'hackers' who 'suck' (or something).
:D
comparisons for the lose!

BTW, nobody is impressed with your SupCom fanboyism.

You know, if I was trying to impress people, I'd do more than state my opinion about a subject. And fanboyism? No, not really, it's anti-fanboyism. I have lots of negative things to say about Supreme Commander, I just feel there's enough of that in this topic already while people ignore all the flaws of the product they seem to find it necessary to compare with.

We know you like it, but there's no way in hell you're going to convince us that SupCom is conclusively and factually better than Spring

Not trying either.

Option 1: Don't put down Spring in your rant.

I'm just giving my subjective opinion on a subjective matter, in most cases, I'm not even trying to argue. Not really putting down Spring much either. Short of a minor mistake in my English (I probably should phrased the credibility thing so it didn't sound so much as an insult) I haven't really provoked much flaming here at all. Which is pretty rare for me :P

Nope.

I'll clarify, I meant current released mod. Great if they're working on something else though.

heh, it's the opposite at the supcom forums.
one person: spring is better than supcom!

Funny how internet forums work like that. Can we stop attacking me and get back on topic now? Where's that build queue suggestion?

Oh, I know, I'll post screenshots, maybe that'll get you back on topic, flying ships!
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... d04xw7.jpg

i just tested the new blacklake map.... i get like 40 fps with my commander. so spring eats same hardware as supcom.

Wow, people weren't kidding when they said that SupCom had an ugly UI!

You're still doing it Zell, and I warned you.

I agree with Fang in his evaluation of modding for Supcom. By artificially raising the bar for quality beyond standards that many can render on their machines, let alone produce, modding will become very difficult mechanically. Teams will form, but remember, the probability that something will be completed in a non-profit endeavour is roughly inversely proportional to the number of people involved in the project.

Optimus raises a valid point to do with the size of the community and the prevalence of alternative mods, but to this I must counter that I have never seen a game where any particular variation can compare to the number one variation. At best, we shoot for a slight majority, and the hatred of our peers. At worse we shoot for a barely played game. This state is heightened by the relative size of the Spring community, and the tensions between rival mod makers. Optimus, your version of FF is not played because many of the people who have played it disagree with your design vision and do not enjoy the play promoted by it - advertising is almost insignificant in comparison. War Evolution, however, is played - indeed, if you recall, I prompted you to fill out a major Wiki entry for it.

All of the issues with mod development and competition are problems I am looking for solutions to.

Yes, Spring has an incredible number of flaws, but they are in our reach to change - whereas Supreme Commander is beginning to look less and less like a modder's paradise, and even less that the core game will be sufficent.

And now back to Supreme Commander, the main line...

neddiedrow wrote:You're still doing it Zell, and I warned you.

What? I'm still defending myself against attacks against me that has little to no relevance to this topic? I'm *SO* sorry.

Shit, I'm just stating my opinion and trying to make it clear that I meant no offense with that credibility thing. Why the hell are everyone attacking me?

I hardly argue in this topic too, unusual for me, and even if that was true, it takes two to argue, which makes me wonder why you are only talking to me.

ZellSF wrote:

neddiedrow wrote:You're still doing it Zell, and I warned you.

What? I'm still defending myself against attacks against me that has little to no relevance to this topic? I'm *SO* sorry.

Shit, I'm just stating my opinion and trying to make it clear that I meant no offense with that credibility thing. Why the hell are everyone attacking me?

Because you have attacked others for not sharing your glowing opinion of SupCom, and because you have put down Spring in your glowing descriptions of SupCom's goodness.

Felix the Cat wrote:

ZellSF wrote:

neddiedrow wrote:You're still doing it Zell, and I warned you.

What? I'm still defending myself against attacks against me that has little to no relevance to this topic? I'm *SO* sorry.

Shit, I'm just stating my opinion and trying to make it clear that I meant no offense with that credibility thing. Why the hell are everyone attacking me?

Because you have attacked others for not sharing your glowing opinion of SupCom, and because you have put down Spring in your glowing descriptions of SupCom's goodness.

Wait? Attacked others? Do say when. And as said, my "glowing" opinion of Supreme Commander really isn't that great, I'm just trying to bring some balance into this topic. Hey, someone must play it if we have a topic to discuss it in :P

I haven't put down Spring much, except said it has less features and some subjective opinions. Is it against the rules in this forum to say your opinion?

Not at all against the rules to express your opinion.

However, as you're in the Spring forum, expect people here to like Spring, and expect opposition if you make posts in which you compare Spring unfavorably to some game that hasn't even been released yet.

It's a matter of choosing your words, and of tact. There's a place and a time for expressing your opinion that SupCom is better than Spring, and that place is the GPG forums, and that time is whenever you feel like breaking off this pointless discussion of a pointless discussion.

However, as you're in the Spring forum, expect people here to like Spring, and expect opposition if you make posts in which you compare Spring unfavorably to some game that hasn't even been released yet.

Problem is, no one has argued against me on that point. Someone argued against me because of a slight miswording looking like I was flaming someone and everyone jumped on the "time to flame Zell because I disagree with him" train.

and that time is whenever you feel like breaking off this pointless discussion of a pointless discussion.

Oh, I did attempt to get back on topic, but someone felt like arguing further. Not my fault. When people keep flaming me, I'd rather defend myself, sorry.

I did not argue against you, and I have not misinterpreted your wording. Your statements have been both aggressive in the pursuit of your own views and tactfully skirting direct offense, but they were not and are not advantageous to you or the points you are attempting to make. When somebody posts a view which held an element of disagreement with your own you either question the validity of their view in the frame of experience or counter directly point by point, as if you are participating in an argument. This is not the case.

So, what alterations to the Beta release are being considered by GPG for the near future? There are obvious flaws - which will they address? Which should they address? The nature of corporation requires certain sacrifice in quality due to profit motive against cost, hence why mods flourish for most released games of any note on the PC.

And, if I may be so bold, which sides in game are being favoured?

I've done close to zero arguing in this topic, outside this silly little flamewar, which I'm not the only one participating in, I'm only the victim. I've only done one point to point comparison too, which didn't result in an argument.

I've read through the entire topic three times, and have no clue whatsoever what you're accusing me of. Yet, you claim you're not misinterpreting my wording. Funny, that.

I think the things that need to be changed in the beta are:

The GUI needs to be made smaller. Not less usfull, as its REALLY usefull right now, but just...smaller. Maybe it could work like this: You have nothing selected, so the only things visible are the 'tabs' on the lower left corner and the econ at the top. Then you selet your com, and the bottom of the GUI goes up and shows the buildable things and the build que. Then you unselect it, and then it goes back down...or something.

Oh and the Camera needs to zoom in farther. The reason the units look so small is cause you can't really zoom in that much.

And the game needs to be more optomized, so as to prevent my FPS from dropping so much. For some reason I think the A.I si whats bringing the FPS down, as I played a LAN game against my freind and got a two to three times increse in the FPS. So much that I could actually turn the graphics from Low to High. And all was well.

And also the more I play this game...the more fun it is. Its weird. I think its cause I'm getting used to the uglyierific GUI. Is that a word?

It should be. Uglyierific...

Zoombie wrote:I think the things that need to be changed in the beta are:

The GUI needs to be made smaller. Not less usfull, as its REALLY usefull right now, but just...smaller. Maybe it could work like this: You have nothing selected, so the only things visible are the 'tabs' on the lower left corner and the econ at the top. Then you selet your com, and the bottom of the GUI goes up and shows the buildable things and the build que. Then you unselect it, and then it goes back do.

The GUI is pretty small in 1600x1200. Sure, that's not very playable on somewhat old computers today, but that's PC gaming. Get used to it :P

Some nice thing about Supreme Commander right now:

Units don't get pushed around by each other nearly as much, very minimally , the game doesn't feel as plastic as Spring.

Tanks and units with treads actually back up instead of turning around.

UI is pretty nice, currently the only modifications available are the ones you can invoke by using alt+up/down. Pretty much changes the interface between ta/starcraft/c&c modes.

Cruise missiles being shot down by vulcan guns is sweet. Cruise missiles in general are pretty fun.

3 tech levels are very cool!

Stripping the game of all it's graphical pretties allows it to run pretty slick on my older systems, and at that point it looks pretty much on par with Spring.

ZellSF wrote:

Zoombie wrote:I think the things that need to be changed in the beta are:

The GUI needs to be made smaller. Not less usfull, as its REALLY usefull right now, but just...smaller. Maybe it could work like this: You have nothing selected, so the only things visible are the 'tabs' on the lower left corner and the econ at the top. Then you selet your com, and the bottom of the GUI goes up and shows the buildable things and the build que. Then you unselect it, and then it goes back do.

The GUI is pretty small in 1600x1200. Sure, that's not very playable on somewhat old computers today, but that's PC gaming. Get used to it

Dude, 1600x1200 is high-resolution in any accepted sense of the word. Games should not be made so that they have an acceptable amount of gameplay space only on high-resolution monitors.

man this thread was one hell of train wreck... but anyway back to supcom.

what can i say... its a beta... they are gonna work on it more... and assuming the people who are actually responding to them have some sense, stuff will get changed. the GUI is indeed a bit overwhelming compared to the game view. the ability to filter out patrol routes when selecting units would be made of win. while there are far less units to choose from that isn't a bad thing. Epic is defined (at least in this game) by phyical size not but amounts (regardeless of whether its a "real" scale or what have you its there, Battleships dwarf tanks = scale). Have been a part of several recent beta releases of software (BF 2142 and Auto Assault come to mind) i can safely say that the current state of this game is nothing to judge the final product by. I think everyone needs to calm the F*ck down and sit tight till the game is actually relased.

Modding Supcom: Really the game needs to be released or GPG needs to have a indepth release of their modding tools/goal/etc. For now im not worried about it though i agree with Fang that making good looking units for this engine ain't gonna be easy.

I don't see why this has to be Spring Vs. Supcom. I find the time to play Spring, OTA and about 4 or 5 different FPS games online. The more variety the better as far as I'm concerned.

In fairness the original TA demo was bloody awful. And the majority of the maps people played in the beginning were tiny ones like Fox Holes which played very badly. If you look at the longer term situation there are bound to be larger maps.

And talking about tactics at this stage is equally redundant. If TA is anything to go by for the first year or two nobody is going to know how to play it properly. Look at the Cavedog strategy guide; they said the people who always won in testing were the porcers. There's no way the games going to end up being about porcing and building up a superunit. The pros will work out ways of rushing, be it with air transports or whatever.

I'll have to wait till I get a new PC next summer before I can get really stuck into this sadly. Until then internet cafe's will be the only option.

Felix the Cat wrote:

ZellSF wrote:

Zoombie wrote:I think the things that need to be changed in the beta are:

The GUI needs to be made smaller. Not less usfull, as its REALLY usefull right now, but just...smaller. Maybe it could work like this: You have nothing selected, so the only things visible are the 'tabs' on the lower left corner and the econ at the top. Then you selet your com, and the bottom of the GUI goes up and shows the buildable things and the build que. Then you unselect it, and then it goes back do.

The GUI is pretty small in 1600x1200. Sure, that's not very playable on somewhat old computers today, but that's PC gaming. Get used to it :P

Dude, 1600x1200 is high-resolution in any accepted sense of the word. Games should not be made so that they have an acceptable amount of gameplay space only on high-resolution monitors.

I didn't say otherwise. That'll probably be fixed by the final though, judging by the numbers of complaints they're surely getting.

Actually I don't think anything in SupCom scales to screen resolution, the splash screen doesn't scale to fit my widescreen.