Spring RTS Engine

Guessmyname wrote:metal is "command points", ie "how much interest your superiors have in your operations", isn't it?

Flags show your control over an objective or area

Yes, I understand this.

Presumably, if your enemy were to attack you and seriously damage you, but eventually you staved off the attack with heavy losses and still retained military control of the area in question, then your superiors would take some interest in maintaining control and would send you some of whatever concrete representation of "command points" is applicable in the situation.

After all, if your enemy attacked you and you didn't repulse his attack, and destroyed all of your flags, then you're probably dead and will lose most of your engineers.

Maybe just make your starting engineer (OKW Feldpioner and his American equivalent) worth +1 metal? If this guy represents the command staff of the area, then if he is killed (and the command staff eliminated), there would be so much confusion in headquarters that your superiors would not be able to get a good idea of what is going on, and hence would not send any reinforcements.

There's all sorts of other things to give possible small metal incomes to - the divisional HQ (the first production building you build), etc.

Now what would be REALLY cool is if all of your soldiers - or maybe just a special "command" soldier - were metal extractors - then your metal income would really mirror how much ground you control. However, we already know that this isn't possible in this version of Spring, because it doesn't adjust the metal extractor's position when it is moved.

I concur, coms should provide a small CP source.

Perhaps HQs could be an extractor...?

Felix the Cat wrote:Presumably, if your enemy were to attack you and seriously damage you, but eventually you staved off the attack with heavy losses and still retained military control of the area in question, then your superiors would take some interest in maintaining control and would send you some of whatever concrete representation of "command points" is applicable in the situation.

Reclaiming corpses would be one way of representing this.

Felix the Cat wrote:Now what would be REALLY cool is if all of your soldiers - or maybe just a special "command" soldier - were metal extractors - then your metal income would really mirror how much ground you control. However, we already know that this isn't possible in this version of Spring, because it doesn't adjust the metal extractor's position when it is moved.

Why not make them movable metal makers that doesn├óÔé¼Ôäót require energy instead of extractors.

There is also the German Command Bunker which is basically like a supermoho metal maker. Building a Command Bunker will pretty much assure your position is heavily important.

Anyway, some updates:

- Reworking all weapons.. first for standardization reasons, second to update weapons to Spring engine specs.
- Reworking turretless/forward firing units with the new directional stuff. Units like assault guns and tank destroyers that before had to turn their entire body like it was a turret, and reset it as they moved, will now automatically maneuver themselves to bring targets in view of their forward-firing guns.
- Re-working aircraft, majorly. Using new Spring aircraft stuff to make as realistic as possible aircraft. Each and every weapon on aircraft is now its own weapon... ie, a fighter with 6 machineguns in the wings will have 6 weapons.

Guessmyname wrote:

Felix the Cat wrote:Presumably, if your enemy were to attack you and seriously damage you, but eventually you staved off the attack with heavy losses and still retained military control of the area in question, then your superiors would take some interest in maintaining control and would send you some of whatever concrete representation of "command points" is applicable in the situation.

Reclaiming corpses would be one way of representing this.

Oddly enough, when I reclaimed corpses, I didn't get any metal back. At least I don't think so - I reclaimed a bunch of corpses but my building never progressed.

Reclaiming corpses in AATA will only get you Logistics resources (ENERGY), not Command Points (METAL).

*shrugs* I thought it would be something akin to collecting dogtags and whatnot of dead enemy troops. It was only a thought.

Guess and I also discussed the need for greater Line of Sight for units in general. At this "realistic" scale, line of sight should be pretty large - if you're in a flat field, you can see a tank from quite a way away.

Here's my proposal:
-Increase line of sight by some amount. I'd propose either 1.5x or 2x the current.
-Give all units radar, and have it extend for double the LOS radius.
-Make infantry radar-invisible.

This is on the theory that you can see that there are "some vehicles" out there in that field, but not what exactly those vehicles are. On the other hand, men on foot are harder to spot, especially if there is any sort of cover to take advantage of, and don't emit large amounts of smoke.

This wouldn't interfere with the early warning radars built by flight engineers - presumably, you could see an airplane in the sky about the same distance that you could see a tank on the ground, or possibly from even farther away.

And, of course, terrain blocks LOS and radar as always, so you wouldn't be able to see vehicles from a long distance away behind a hill.

Currently, the LOS is very low, unrealistically low I believe.

very good ideas

Spiked was already planning on increasing LOS.

With the half-scale version its obviously not as bad as it's twice as large

In the meantime; use the observation vehicles! They have huge LOS and are vital to a good attack, or the defender will have the upper hand (paricularly if they have infantry who havea larger LOS)

edit: as for the radar thing I doubt it will happen.

FLOZi wrote:In the meantime; use the observation vehicles! They have huge LOS and are vital to a good attack, or the defender will have the upper hand (paricularly if they have infantry who havea larger LOS)

That's exactly what I had bet you were going to say.

Guess, you owe me some undetermined amount of money. $50 will do nicely, cash, check, or money order accepted.

Your defence would have kept crushing me had I not started using them more effectively

By the end that factory was producing them soley. My light support halftrack (Sdkfz 250/9) couldn't cross the river, and the medium support halftrack wasn't doing a great deal - something to be considered when rebalancing, as I believe was already mentioned, Tanks and TDs are being abused.

My earlier use of observation infantry was very helpful in determining how to attack your base, and what you were up to!


But back on topic; yeeeeeeeeeess. We plan to increase LOS for Spring.

Felix, tell him 'bout our game! Tell him! Tell him! It was special!

It turns out that infy grenades don't do shit to pillboxes...aren't they supposed to be great agaisnt them? German pillboxes are excellent. I like it....they don't do crap vs. tanks, but are a WALL vs. infantry. Take a long time to destroy, even if Felix has 72 mortars on them

(So THAT is what the command bunker does. Gotcha. Whats the support one for?)

I wholeheartedly support all of Felix's suggestions. I'd go even further and say that except for the scout vehicles and observers, all units should have the same LOS. We all utilize the Mk. 1 eyeball, right? Maybe a penalty for tanks with poor optics, or heavy tanks, or w/e.

Another thing is....quite major, i think....the current gun positions for the Germans have a sort of wall along one side. They can only fire in one direction. If there were 4 versions of the building so you could CHOOSE which direction, that would be OK. But their aren't. Please lower the wall around them so I'm not spammed with 'PaK 40 can't reach its target' 40 times

Felix the Cat wrote:Guess and I also discussed the need for greater Line of Sight for units in general.

When was this?

Felix the Cat wrote:Guess, you owe me some undetermined amount of money. $50 will do nicely, cash, check, or money order accepted.

Oh, what for?

Whats going on?

Game server up. Any of you testers around?

Neuralize is also a beta tester know too. Damn time-zone issues

heroesdoexist07 wrote:Felix, tell him 'bout our game! Tell him! Tell him! It was special!

It turns out that infy grenades don't do shit to pillboxes...aren't they supposed to be great agaisnt them? German pillboxes are excellent. I like it....they don't do crap vs. tanks, but are a WALL vs. infantry. Take a long time to destroy, even if Felix has 72 mortars on them

Well, they shouldn't be that effective... a good Panzerfaust/Bazooka/Flamethrower ought to be MUCH more effective.

(So THAT is what the command bunker does. Gotcha. Whats the support one for?)

I think the command bunker is a targetting facility too, although I'm not sure. Anyway, the support bunker gives you 300 energy and 1000 energy storage, and as with the other bunkers is better protected against aerial attack.

I wholeheartedly support all of Felix's suggestions. I'd go even further and say that except for the scout vehicles and observers, all units should have the same LOS. We all utilize the Mk. 1 eyeball, right? Maybe a penalty for tanks with poor optics, or heavy tanks, or w/e.

I was considering this myself; tanks should probably have a larger LOS as they have optics, BUT, unless they have a fully rotating cupula don't have 360deg LOS without rotating the turret. Even with a 360deg cupula the commander will generally not be looking out the back. As Spring doesn't allow LOS cones tanks and such should suffer from this.

Of course you can argue that infantry can't see behind them, too!

Another thing is....quite major, i think....the current gun positions for the Germans have a sort of wall along one side. They can only fire in one direction. If there were 4 versions of the building so you could CHOOSE which direction, that would be OK. But their aren't. Please lower the wall around them so I'm not spammed with 'PaK 40 can't reach its target' 40 times

Indeed, an annoying issue, perhaps best fixed by just removing the wall altogether.

Crash when trying to enter FPS mode with US Commander

Typo: US MOtor Carriage Depot

You shouldn't be able to enter FPS mode with the commander, he doesn't have a weapon.

Forgot about that typo

When you hold shift over him a red circle pops up showing his weapon range

For some reason the game crashes on ending

also, cob error in gmc truck, invalid piece name or something, happens when it dies by tank round