Spring RTS Engine

for great justice!
To save theists, I present this epic bit of undeniable truth!!!
(my prof showed us this in class to open the God section, and I'm jking)

tombom wrote:Yes, not believing in something because there's no proof at all is clearly as bad as believing in God

Seriously, what the hell? Atheism is just a non-belief in god or gods, it doesn't even mean you accept science.

Atheism, as an explicit position, either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism

there is no proof to say there is no god ... if you're atheist you affirm "there is no god" without a proof it's even more stupid than believing in god(s)

agnostic is the only wise choice

Satirik wrote:
Atheism, as an explicit position, either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism

there is no proof to say there is no god ... if you're atheist you affirm "there is no god" without a proof it's even more stupid than believing in god(s)

agnostic is the only wise choice

This really isn't the right venue for the discussion (I've gradually decided that if I got to know my fellow Spring players any better I'd quit the game in disgust), but Richard Dawkins makes the point that, even from an agnostic perspective, Atheism makes so much more sense than even the most basic deistic admission (God exists) that being an agnostic that really is open to the possibility of God is pretty much willful ignorance.

In general, believing that an omnipotent sapient being is the origin of the universe makes as much sense as believing that the universe spontaneously sprung into being fully constructed with pre-fabbed memories and civilization five seconds ago.

Which isn't to say that all atheists deny the existence of any possibility of a spiritual world... but the idea of any beings having any direct impact on the real universe (particularly its creation) is a whole other story.

Saying a god created everything isn't that unlikely I think, compared to the alternatives. It's getting into specifics that's silly.

Zpock wrote:Saying a god created everything isn't that unlikely I think, compared to the alternatives. It's getting into specifics that's silly.

Umm, where does that come from? The idea that a hyperintelligent being spontaneously popped into existence is somewhat less reasonable than the alternative concept that the universe's existence is mathematically inevitable.

Zpock wrote:Saying a god created everything isn't that unlikely I think, compared to the alternatives. It's getting into specifics that's silly.

How the hell isn't it unlikely? All it does is introduce another step to the creation of the universe that can't be explained, without really explaining anything else.

Non-belief in something that's absolutely 100% impossible to prove or disprove isn't a stupid position. See the teapot orbiting Mars etc.

TheBigPK wrote:

manored wrote:

TheBigPK wrote: Maybe space, definitely not time. This argument could go for space, too, I suppose. If the universe (philosophically, the universe=existence most of the time) has existed for an infinite amount of time we would have to have had traversed infinity to get to the time we are at right now; and traversing infinity is impossible. You cannot pinpoint a specific part of infinity. Even science doesn't support an infinate universe; the big bang makes it entirely possible for everything to have come out of nothing at all.

However nothing IS infinity :)
Can you measure nothing? No
Can you measure infinity? No
They look quite similar to me :)

relevance?

The universe can be infinite and can have existed for a infinite amount of time...

Pxtl wrote:

Zpock wrote:Saying a god created everything isn't that unlikely I think, compared to the alternatives. It's getting into specifics that's silly.

Umm, where does that come from? The idea that a hyperintelligent being spontaneously popped into existence is somewhat less reasonable than the alternative concept that the universe's existence is mathematically inevitable.

Only because math cannot exist winhout a universe :) why there is a universe tough? thats the question...

tombom wrote:

Zpock wrote:Saying a god created everything isn't that unlikely I think, compared to the alternatives. It's getting into specifics that's silly.

How the hell isn't it unlikely? All it does is introduce another step to the creation of the universe that can't be explained, without really explaining anything else.

Non-belief in something that's absolutely 100% impossible to prove or disprove isn't a stupid position. See the teapot orbiting Mars etc.

I'd say I prefer to keep the possibilities open for philosophical thought, where there's no proofs anyway. Simply not giving a crap about it scientifically where it doesn't matter and you can't get out of Platos cave. While treating religion as a minor lifestyle thing and source of interesting stories/history. I guess I should have used the word possible instead of not unlikely.

manored wrote:The universe can be infinite and can have existed for a infinite amount of time...

As far as I know, universe does not exist in time, time exists in universe.

manored wrote:Only because math cannot exist winhout a universe :) why there is a universe tough? thats the question...

And explain again, why cannot mathematics, more specifically, logic exist outside the universe? I have a faint idea (most likely phail) why the universe would exist, a weird circular logic, but I'm having a hard time expressing it. Something like for nothing to exist, there has to be logic "defining" nothingness, and thus nothingness cannot exist, and something *has* to exist. Actually my train of thought was nothing like that, but as I said, I can't put it into words.

In any case, we are out of tools to examine something that exists outside logic. We cannot use reasoning there.

Infinite amount of time means like "no beggining"... tough that makes as much sense as it having a beggining, that is, none :)

Mathematics and logic are immutable and existant in any imaginable situation, whoever they do not cause events by thenselfes... wich means that if there is nothing to be calculated or logically deduced, mathematic and logic have no impact and thus do not exist.

Well one idea is that mathematics would define somehow what's possible, and thus since it's possible, it happens.

Infinite time and space are generally considered as very unlikely these days.

TheBigPK wrote:

Existence is infinite in space, yes? There is no 'edge' of existence.

Maybe space, definitely not time. This argument could go for space, too, I suppose. If the universe (philosophically, the universe=existence most of the time) has existed for an infinite amount of time we would have to have had traversed infinity to get to the time we are at right now; and traversing infinity is impossible. You cannot pinpoint a specific part of infinity. Even science doesn't support an infinate universe; the big bang makes it entirely possible for everything to have come out of nothing at all.

manored wrote:The universe can be infinite and can have existed for a infinite amount of time...

explain how i traverse an infinite amount of time or space to end up where i am right now.

I'm catholic.









8 )

Pxtl wrote:

Zpock wrote:Saying a god created everything isn't that unlikely I think, compared to the alternatives. It's getting into specifics that's silly.

Umm, where does that come from? The idea that a hyperintelligent being spontaneously popped into existence is somewhat less reasonable than the alternative concept that the universe's existence is mathematically inevitable.

Again two who never played Black & White. God exists, he simply just can´t get on higher Controlllevels than a Toddler - therefore gatecrash buldings with shit, hitting poor animals and throw you into the ocean is the most dangerous thing God is able to. Don´t believe me, just ask Molyneux right away!

@Lolsquad Steven: Beeing Catholic is fun. The only religiouse Comunity were the Priest drops by and asks why out of your Marriage doesen´t come constant Offspring. Send them Marching. Privacy to hell!

TheBigPK wrote: explain how i traverse an infinite amount of time or space to end up where i am right now.

Well that would require me to know how the whole existence thing started, what I dont, and I dont know where the pieces of you came from either... :)

God can make a gigant creature step on you or eat you too, or he can burn you with fire, or fry you with lighting, or make a yellow ray of energy BOOM on you, or drop a gigant rock or tree or tedy bear at you, or sacrifice you in an altar, or make you workship him to death, or poison your food with a mushroom... as you can see, God is quite dangerous... :)

Oh and he cant spank you to dead with the death bodies of your family. That must be the most cruel thing to do :)

TheBigPK wrote:explain how i traverse an infinite amount of time or space to end up where i am right now.

Finite areas can exist within an infinite space...

Peet wrote:

TheBigPK wrote:explain how i traverse an infinite amount of time or space to end up where i am right now.

Finite areas can exist within an infinite space...

YA

Yeah, lets get metaphysical - there is a 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% Chance that God exists, it is a chance that big - there is a greater chance to win the lottery three times..

But people still believe in lotterys and they believe in God... the whole point is, drawn in fine line or not, they don´t care for reason. And why don´t they care for reasons when it comes down to lottery? Lack of Imagination (Concerning great Numbers, Scale, Math, the Universes as Whole), lack of knowledge and a little system in there brainz rewarding them like Skinners Rats for useless behaviour. Evolution made God, which proofs that Evolution can lead to epic Fail, and still exist further

Biologic evolution is bunch of quimic reactions that can cease or not, and chose who continue make more of thenselfes but suffering little alterations ever time, causing some of then to be harder to stop than others and thus to leave more copies, causing then to vary and adapt thenselfes over time. Now you cant want to have a intelligent being be born out of that :)