Spring RTS Engine

Yup. This means that throwing a wave of Peepers in just before your attack aircraft can seriously cut down on the AA. Doesn't really matter for gunships, but for advanced bombers, it can be a big help.

You just have to get the timing right.

Snipawolf wrote:Sweet, spam peepers on an air raid...

Say 10 peepers to 1 bomber?

The best air strike I ever pulled off was actually 1 peeper for every two other planes, or there about.

Are the AA bots done yet? I'm tried of getting pwnt by brawlers, and level 1 bots do NOT work well agsint brawler swarms. And no, i will not dig trought 2 levels of Vech to find 1 unit i need. That's just stupid waste.

Comp1337 wrote:Is there a way to make reclaiming a gradual thing rather than instantly getting all the metal at the end? So you could reclaim a comm wreck and the amount of metal will gradually decrease as it is added to your econ?

I've often thought this. I hate having to retreat during reclaiming as I know I'll have to start again. It just doesn't seem right, from a realism point of view. What is happening all the time that the reclaim is in progress??

This raises another point however. When you cancel building a unit in a factory it just dissapears and you get hit with all the invested resources instantaneously. If gradual reclamation does get implemented then it seems to me that factories should reclaim what they were building with the same gradual reclaim process.

Perhaps this discussion should be moved from the AA thread though - I believe it is a Spring engine issue after all.

Kixxe wrote:Are the AA bots done yet? I'm tried of getting pwnt by brawlers, and level 1 bots do NOT work well agsint brawler swarms. And no, i will not dig trought 2 levels of Vech to find 1 unit i need. That's just stupid waste.

Hawks/Vamps.

yeh, fight fire with fire.

Lets think about this realistically..

If sombody does a LVL-2 Air rush, and you're struggling to do the same but you're making Kbots..

How can you say "just rush through lvl1 and lvl2 air to get adequate anti-Air" with any real conviction or thought about what you're implying.

If you're at the same build speed using Kbots, and the other player is at the same rate of economy and Tech that you are..

The guy that went AIR-Lvl2 and built his 10 brawlers is going to win, hands down.

Are you still going to say that altering your whole tactics after just finishing your LVL-2 Kbot lab, then they're soposed to have the resources to make not just 1 plant, but tech 2 air as well to defeat the enemy's already winning strategy..

Liar.

MR.D wrote:yeh, fight fire with fire.

Lets think about this realistically..

If sombody does a LVL-2 Air rush, and you're struggling to do the same but you're making Kbots..

How can you say "just rush through lvl1 and lvl2 air to get adequate anti-Air" with any real conviction or thought about what you're implying.

If you're at the same build speed using Kbots, and the other player is at the same rate of economy and Tech that you are..

The guy that went AIR-Lvl2 and built his 10 brawlers is going to win, hands down.

Are you still going to say that altering your whole tactics after just finishing your LVL-2 Kbot lab, then they're soposed to have the resources to make not just 1 plant, but tech 2 air as well to defeat the enemy's already winning strategy..

Liar.

What the hell are you doing that means an opponent can tech up to t2 air without kbots and not get owned?


By tech2 an air using opponent can be completely locked down and screamers and flak will chew up air cost-for-cost like nothing else.


I dont understand why you want T2 Kbot AA when brawlers already have no chance against T1 air or even T1 Kbot AA, definitely not on a 1:1 ratio, but enough to make the investment into T2 Air useless against all but a completely unprepared opponent.

I'm pretty sure that Mr D means:

lvl1 kbots > lvl1 air > lvl2 air

against

lvl1 kbots > lvl2 kbots > lvl1 air > lvl2 air

Also, Screamers and flak are pretty damn expensive, too expensive to 'completely lock down' lvl2 air if someone rushes it.

And by the time your opponent can afford to use Brawler swarms too large for 5-10 Jethros to handle (for reference, that's more than 15-20 Brawlers - FireCrack, I think, ran tests and found that a Jethro can generally take down two Brawlers) for defense, you really should have a T2 air plant of your own.

Of course, if he's rushed T2 air for defense, you can probably afford to use T1 fighters to take out his air, as there's no way he'll have screamers or flak.

That's not to say that KBot AA wouldn't be nice, but it's hardly vital.

Im not talking about locking down air against a rush, but it is definitely the case trying to use air late game that it becomes extremely hard to do anthing with, and by making level 2 AA Kbots its just adding to this.

Aun wrote:I'm pretty sure that Mr D means:

lvl1 kbots > lvl1 air > lvl2 air

against

lvl1 kbots > lvl2 kbots > lvl1 air > lvl2 air

The second listed build order is pretty silly. L1 air is so useful and cheap that there's no reason not to get it as your second factory. And as I said, until your enemy gets LRMTs up, L1 fighters will do bad, bad things to his Gunships.

Yes. Remember that the L1 factories are dirt cheap. Just because the L1 construction bots pretty much force you to start with kbots doesn't mean you can't build other L1 factories before going L2. I often build a vehicle plant near the front lines to see if I can do an L1 breakthrough. Likewise, L1 fighters are the only mobile L1 Anti-Air unit that is actually useful in the late-game. Use them.

Look at the unit guides and compare the costs of L1 plants vs. L2 plants. L1 plants are something aroudn the cost of 2 HLTs.

Ignoring all this air stuff that has been gone over 100 times already - This is probably an engine issue, but i'll ask anyway.

When nukes and cruise missiles launch, would it be possible to send billowing clouds of smoke low across the ground and enguld nearby buildings? Just think it would look pretty nifty

Think of a shuttle launch, the smoke billows out sideways for quit a distance, engulfing nearby buildings before it starts to dissapate.

Rubbish i know, but atm it's more like it is on the left, trying to describe the image on the right.

I think it could be done by modifying the unit scripts.

Egarwaen wrote:FireCrack, I think, ran tests and found that a Jethro can generally take down two Brawlers

I ran no such test and highly doubt said observation....

...there's a slim chance i might have said two jethros can take dwon a brawler, though....

you could probably cheat it by having the launcher eject smoke particles during its firing animation (similar to a bertha when firing)

Ah yes, that's right. Journier ran the tests. 2 AA KBots per Brawler, actually scales slightly in the AA Kbots' favour because Brawlers chain-explode.

Ishach wrote:

MR.D wrote:I dont understand why you want T2 Kbot AA when brawlers already have no chance against T1 air or even T1 Kbot AA, definitely not on a 1:1 ratio, but enough to make the investment into T2 Air useless against all but a completely unprepared opponent.

Why not? Vechiles get em... And besides, do i really have to invest in a 1:1 ratio when i'm using a COUNTER? Maybe if i out number the brawlers, but otherwise im stuck in my base with my AA, or forced to build 2 factories for 1 unit.

I don't see the logic in it either... i mean, there are anti air ships, anti air Vechiles, anti air hovers AND Anti air Air. All level 2 (or 1 › with hovers). Why can't k-bots get AA, besides the "OH LOL NO ONE USES VECHILES" stupidty?

Oh change the record for godsakes everyone knows the counter for brawlers, its been posted many times, if you still cant stop them its you not the mod!
boo hoo your jthros got pwned, build more, look at Isachs and Egarwaens post about brawler / jethro ratio etc. Theyre right you know ^^

Can we talk about something that actually needs addressing instead of this... AGAIN.
The only thing I can really think of is sea units, but thats already been covered i think ^^