Spring RTS Engine

Making Otherside do your dirty work?

Tobi wrote:IMO just add code like this (yeah that's possible)

Code: Select all

if (mod == "CA") then
  Spring.Rehost ("BA DSD")
end

Seriously though, I don't see all the fuss, just play one of the other 10000 maps available if this map doesn't really work with your mod.

The fuss is that he intentionally broke CA gameplay in his map.

And people who don't play CA have no authority to say he didn't break gameplay so their arguments hold no weight.

But no one even saw the fuss in Senna's maps when I argued loudly against it (even Regret mocked me despite the fact we were on the same side) so why would anyone see the fuss here. I guess there should be no fuss in renaming our gadget for the next release to "mutate" this map. I'm sad that a spring dev doesn't agree with Licho's point that there should be a simple check to decide whether map's rules override mod's. That's all we ask.

how did he break it? he disabled wind. The same setting would be applied in BA.

there would be no need for him to include LUA to disable winds if the wind value is 0.

Doing so is going out of his way to block playability with CA. He can do what he chooses i just really dunno why beherith is bothered seeing as CA players play this map alot (probably more than BA Players) all he is doing is giving his map less playtime which is a bit stupid imo.

But each to there own.

smoth wrote:how did he break it? he disabled wind.

I am not seeing an answer to this.

smoth wrote:

smoth wrote:how did he break it? he disabled wind.

I am not seeing an answer to this.

Perhaps if you were playing it ..
its like asking how would we break BA by disabling mohos.

And "disabling" in same way - let people build them but make them produce no m

That isn't breaking. There are alternative power structures.

Rather than creating a huge fuss, why not setup up a solution? Work together to find a solution.

smoth wrote:That isn't breaking. There are alternative power structures.

Rather than creating a huge fuss, why not setup up a solution? Work together to find a solution.

the solution would be for the map maker to not include lua (and going out of his way in doing so) just to intentionally disrupts a mod's gameplay.

that isn't a solution.

smoth wrote:

smoth wrote:how did he break it? he disabled wind.

I am not seeing an answer to this.

It would be like if he added lua to make some particular unit in gundam be useless without preventing it from being built.


Also,
CA isn't BA

In BA your starting energy options are solar and wind. You chose to build solar or wind based on the wind levels of the map, your current metal and energy storage, and the superior durability of solar. The map maker choses the wind levels intentionally to encourage a certain type of gameplay.

Some major economical differences in CA made this impossible. All costs in CA were standardized to 1 metal : 1 energy : 1 buildtime. So there is no difference in resource consumption between building solar and wind. You don't save energy by building solar, and you don't save metal by building wind. The differences are limited to the map output and their raidability.

To make economy more interesting, winds get a higher average output the higher they are. This makes the economy more interesting because suddenly energy is partially territory-dependent. High ground is good to take to build winds on, which makes for a place to hold or attack. Geos do the same thing, but they are not found in every map and often in not-very-interesting places (e.g. altored). The system is brilliant because it works fluidly with every map ever created.

Now, on some maps this breaks because they system works by decreasing the minimum wind. Notably on Tundra the max and min wind are both 9, so there is effectively no height bonus for wind. Solar is better than wind in every single way. Now people complain already that CA economy is too simple, but removing the most interesting energy option in the game just makes it far worse. Playing the game almost makes you wonder why there is an economy at all. So wind was overridden as a precaution so that all maps would be playable with CA's wind.

Now there was a faction of ca devs (about half, which I believe notably included Licho, CarRepairer, and SirMaverick) who wanted to disable wind on non-wind maps. So they did not want wind on maps like comet or apophis anyway. However, when Licho went on dev break and nulled his vote, it seems that the vote shifted in favor of having wind on non-wind maps. Original poll/discussion here and more here. Even if you don't read you can see this issue has already been talked to death. So currently wind is still available on non-wind maps.



To summarize, CA economy isn't BA economy and CA winds aren't BA winds. CA economy is extremely simple, removing winds makes it simple to the point of silliness. It seems many people are interested in enhancing CA's economy to make it more interesting, so in the future this probably won't be an issue.



Bottom line: Many do agree with Beherith's end result, but not with his method.

Just out of morbid curiosity, how does CA handle the fact that max playable height on apophis is around 2k, while minumum is 1.5k?

It doesn't matter though as it is HIS MAP.

it is not like he made a mod.

I don't care if someone makes a map that fucks up gundam. I will just tell people not to play it and later add a gadget to immediately end the game if they play on that map.

It doesn't matter that they objected to what he did.. it is his map. They could have been more diplomatic about it. They were not.

Cry some more.

Are you THAT hypocritical? The lua disabled by his map overrides map settings. He wants his map to have immersion, wind makes no sense on an asteroid.

You could work around this, but that would be the absolute disrespect of Beherith's wants. To me that is more of a dick move than disabling lua that ignores his settings.

well coresair, I am pissed that no solutions are being offered. I proposed one and they went right back to their fucking fighting.

Solutions are not found by demanding someone does things your way. I have no idea why someone as intelligent as licho is fighting this the way he is.

Its not atmospheric wind! Its solar wind!
Don't you read unit description and tech fluff? Thats why its stronger at higher altitude.

It breaks immersion if asteroid with no atmosphere and no magnetic field breaks solar wind generators..


Also when we have planned chicken economy with growing cabbage and larvae that eat it implemented, will he try to block cabbage because it does not grow on unfertile asteroid soil?

True, smoth, very true. All i see here are demands and insults

Also licho, I am not convinced, they look like high-teched windmills. WINDmills.

The wind is solar wind. Blades are magnetic and moving electrically charged particles of solar wind make it turn. Isn't it bloody obvious?

Do you think robots that kill each other with no reason whatsoever 3 million years before the end of universe would use stupid windmills with 100kW generators?

Licho wrote:Its not atmospheric wind! Its solar wind!

Did you read the lua file? Solar and interstellar wind is covered in that as well.

Thing is licho, he isn't hurting ca. He isn't changing the engine to break ca. He isn't making a ca version and claiming it is the official. he isn't making any change that effects your project. It is just 1 of 1000s of maps, and one of a few that don't play well with ca.

I didn't see you guys rage over the grts maps, or even desert valley.

Rather than rage at him, why did you not suggest an alternative solution? It would result in a more interesting alternative. For example, an extra ca config that could be included with maps that would cover planned or current features? I mean really there are many many better ways of addressing this.

I do not see why you are not taking that approach.

ehhh, learn to solar wind. And that is just fluff, not a valid excuse to do as you wish against a map maker's will.