Spring RTS Engine

yan (i think thats you gota because everyone seems to call you that),

just because you see the numbers, doesn't mean you see everything.
ive been to that mod site, ive seen the stats, ive weeped and rejoiced because im an arm player. but all this really does is blow the small differences out of proportion

ok, the annihilator cant withstand a few t2 bombers. so what?
fine, the stumpy is stronger than the core version. so what?
core != arm.

the differences make these two sides more fun to play, and balance balance balance will ruin the game, especially when the "balance" is coming from one noisy forum user.

special damages gives more possibility to unit roles, so spamming one unit wont be the only way to go. the values aren't crazy, and its not hurting anyone except maybe you

Hacked wrote:yan (i think thats you gota because everyone seems to call you that),

just because you see the numbers, doesn't mean you see everything.
ive been to that mod site, ive seen the stats, ive weeped and rejoiced because im an arm player. but all this really does is blow the small differences out of proportion

ok, the annihilator cant withstand a few t2 bombers. so what?
fine, the stumpy is stronger than the core version. so what?
core != arm.

the differences make these two sides more fun to play, and balance balance balance will ruin the game, especially when the "balance" is coming from one noisy forum user.

special damages gives more possibility to unit roles, so spamming one unit wont be the only way to go. the values aren't crazy, and its not hurting anyone except maybe you

All the jerks who try to annoy me call me yan.
My real name is Alex or you can just call me Gota since that is my nick(makes sense?).

your arguments are completly beside the point.
first of all:
1)5 T1! bombers not T2.
2)balance doesn't mean not fun.
Are you saying than,when your playing comet catcher for example and one guy builds stumpies cause he is arm and the other builds raiders and loses cause raiders are less effective per cost,is fun?
how is that fun?
I thought fun is about thinking fast,effectively applying your chosen strategy and winning because of it not cause you used an over powered unit..

just think it through first.
where is the connection of fun and balance.
Balance allowes you to win cause you played better unbalanced units allow you to win just cause you play a certain side on a certain map..

If the arm stumpy is more maneuverable and the raider is slower but heavier how is that the same?
The 2 sides will play differently but a player that knows how to play in a slower more defensive frontal assault style will win with Raiders while a maneuvering master that harrases well will win with stumpies..
If one unit is just better for cost one will have more chances of winning if playing with that unit...
Where isthe fun in that?
you are confusing things..

Balanced units doesn't mean units need to be exactly the same..IT DOESN'T MEAN ALL UNITS NEED OT BE EXACTLY THE SAME!!
They can be very different yet still balanced!!
and I don't just see the numbers I'm also an experienced player.

All special damages are is a tool to not have to think or work hard on balance but it creates more problems than it solves in most cases.

All these are axioms as far as I'm concerned.
If you can give me an example of how having units that are just better than others good i will rethink my assumtions.

now Back to the annihilator of BA.

nah

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:nah

Epic quote

Protip: The WarC's don't care, and prolly never will. Doesn't matter with what evidence you beat them over the head. Doesn't matter how right you are or wrong you may be. Save your fingers.

u have to be wrong here forb as atleast noize do care and seeks for improvements.

I haven't posted on balance for almost a year, mainly because it's like banging your head against a brick wall on these forums.

BA is good, but definately not perfect, GOTA raised some good points about balance which imo should be listened to.

Supreme Anihilation V1 was definately imo, the most balanced TA mod in spring, it just never got played because everyone had started with BA and the changes made in SA wern't really attractive enough to pull in new players, i.e they were just unit stat changes, great for mod balance but no new big tanks or whatever to get peoples attention and get them to change over from BA.

Id still play SA over BA any day of the week, but there are no games available, I got bored of spamming stumpies in BA and just stopped playing spring altogether.

BA is still good, but far from perfect, it would be great if whoever's developing it now, checked out SA to see if there were any good changes they could take, and apply to BA...stumpy balance.. hint hint :)

Amphibious Bantha's? I mean, cmon man.... noize you been at those heinekens again?

BigSteve wrote:Amphibious Bantha's? I mean, cmon man.... noize you been at those heinekens again?

Lol I warned him about that wording if the changelog said "Banthas now on the same moveclass as the Krogoth" noone would bat an eyelid, and that's all that was changed

I'll now give you an advice Sleksa gave me for numerous times and that most certainly was one of the reasons I started making Maximum Annihilation:
GO MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!

Gota has already stolen tired's work on SA, and there is one reason why gota is now after BA,popularity.

He's nothing more than a irritating *chan attention whore and a petty thief, as is already seen by his several attempts of stealing BA (mod hijacking thread)

I didnt steal SA.
Tired gave up work on it and allowed anyone to do what they wanted with it.
SA 1.0 is still available on the downlaod websites.
The only reason i started changing SA is cause it appeared to not have been "good" enough for spring players and none wanted to listen to reason.
So i decided to make,based on SA's balance, something that is different yet still has superb balance...Its still under works and needs several key things that spring isn't supporting yet.

AS to BA IT can definatly learn from SA.
IN fact i think that if we take SA and give units a small boost to speed it will be very much like BA but without fail and oped units.
Maybe ill take SA 1.0 and update it so it works well with the new version of spring.

And Sleksa you have been the driving force behind the staleness of BA.Congratulations.
All these "BA is finished" announcements have become ridiculous in light of new BA balance changes but unfortunately the changes were not called for,mostly.

BA is meant to be finished in terms of general gameplay balance. Doing some minor refinements will always occur as no game will EVER be balanced at all...

If you like SA better / think its balance is a better start continue your work on that and stop whining that your suggestions have faced some kind of resistance in BA. It doesn't matter if some of them are "right" (like imo the Annihilator) - you've made your point but if the devs think that this would be no fun and reject it you have to live with that and if you think that this is a stupid attitude "GO MAKE YOUR OWN MOD!"...

It's simply the only option left...

Sigh.

btw Sleksa..

The entire BA mod was stolen from AA when it first came out, where the only noticeable change was that solars no longer cost E to build and fixed Weasel balance, so this thing about popularity is a ridiculous statement when this mod was just a Theft all on its own.

BA isn't a perfect game, and there are still alot of unbalanced aspects of the game.

The difference with AA and BA is that Caydr would actually listen to his community to try to improve it more, and not pull the "I'm right and you're wrong because I'm better than you" card.

As crazy as some of his changes were (usually more to do with flash/gator balance) there were still more things fixed and refined than there were faults.

At least Caydr made the game fun from patch to patch and was open so some of the smaller issues of the game, and wasn't an ignorant cock about changing things that the community wanted.

Tired had some amazing and very well worked out Balance changes when he was working on TiA and early SA releases, some of those changes really improved the game, believe it or not (since I doubt you even bothered to play it), he also was open so suggestion to improve the game through change, not lockdown.

BA is just as big as AA was, and keeping the game fresh and exciting is about change and evolution, not about locking it all down to your 5-10 elite friends that say nobody else can have a good idea if it wasn't their suggestion to begin with.

MR.D wrote:btw Sleksa..

The entire BA mod was stolen from AA when it first came out, where the only noticeable change was that solars no longer cost E to build and fixed Weasel balance, so this thing about popularity is a ridiculous statement when this mod was just a Theft all on its own.

BA isn't a perfect game, and there are still alot of unbalanced aspects of the game.

The difference with AA and BA is that Caydr would actually listen to his community to try to improve it more, and not pull the "I'm right and you're wrong because I'm better than you" card.

As crazy as some of his changes were (usually more to do with flash/gator balance) there were still more things fixed and refined than there were faults.

At least Caydr made the game fun from patch to patch and was open so some of the smaller issues of the game, and wasn't an ignorant cock about changing things that the community wanted.

BA is just as big as AA was, and keeping the game fresh and exciting is about change and evolution, not about locking it all down to your 5-10 elite friends that say nobody else can have a good idea if it wasn't their suggestion to begin with.

+1 the truth coming from someone who isnt biased

MR.D wrote:The difference with AA and BA is that Caydr would actually listen to his community to try to improve it more, and not pull the "I'm right and you're wrong because I'm better than you" card.

This is complete bullshit.

Noize personally asked me for opinions about imbalances in BA, and changed every single thing that I pointed out. I'm sure he had similar discussions with many other BA players as well.

He listens to his community, just not to the clueless part.

MR.D wrote:not about locking it all down to your 5-10 elite friends that say nobody else can have a good idea if it wasn't their suggestion to begin with.

It's not an option to listen to tons of newbies whining and spewing out their awesome suggestions. Concentrating on the opinion of the few good and experienced players is what he is doing.

Oooooh is that some fanboism im seeing :O

Otherside wrote:Oooooh is that some fanboism im seeing :O

It's facts.

It was diffrent with caydr, if you look in the old AA topics you see players making suggestions, and caydr actively replying, and making suggestions himself, also making alot of updates, in this thread you mostly see other people talking and not noize, also, becaus of caydr, the AA threads got to about 4k posts, and I don't see that happening with ba threads.

Not that I'm saying noize isn't a nice guy or something, it's just that caydr blended in with the players more, listened to their suggestions, and actually impleted the good ones.

MR.D wrote:BA is just as big as AA was, and keeping the game fresh and exciting is about change and evolution, not about locking it all down to your 5-10 elite friends that say nobody else can have a good idea if it wasn't their suggestion to begin with.

As a counter to that I'm in no way one of NOIZE's "Elite friends" and a lot of my own work is in the BA6.6 changelog, I believe it can be improved more without drastically altering unit balance and tbh 6.6 was a quick release so that the LosMipLevel change and some of the bugfixes could be implemented without further delay.

So Annihilator cannon should have double its current HP?

I mean, for a tech 2.5 base defense that's pricier than a goliath, it has less hp than 2 medium tanks put together.