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Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 14 Jan 2008, 03:21
by Bishounen
One thng I have noticed about KAIK, particularly when playing with Balanced Annihilation V6.0 (and older versions as well) Is that KAIK tends to just flood with small units until much later in the game. then it will tech up, but will continue to flood and flood and flood with units of all kinds. It will also continue to create units that are of no use. (For example, creating Fleas in a late-game situation.)
While this would be good on most maps (as it would be constantly pounding the defenses of it's enemies) it creates a problem when on maps with natural barriers, like deep water, lava, acid, or impassible mountains. Unfortunately, because it doesn't take these barriers into account, and since it can't create sea units yet, it just creates tons of land units and piles them up on the shore. (or drives them into the lava or acid to die.)
The main problem with all this is that it tends to drag down your PC as it tries to keep track of all these units at once, and eventually it becomes so slow that you can't input commands anymore, and you have to close out the game.
if I can make a suggestion, I would request that KAIK is made to have a good grasp of artillery emplacements, and that it shuts off the flow of lower-end and small units once it has properly teched-up, reclaiming the low-tech plants and replacing them with high-tech plants. Also, if a map has natural barriers (such as LavaRiver, which has a divide running the length of the map that destroys land units crossing it) that it will curtail it's land unit production to a minimum, focusing on engineers, AA, Air units, and Arty.
Of course, it would be nice if it could swim too. :)
Thanks for listening, I really love KAIK, as it is a real challenge to play against. Thanks for making it!
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 20 Jan 2008, 19:18
by GBscientist
Since upgrading to version 0.76b1 and the included KAIK 0.13, the KAIK has been totally ineffective. In any map, with any mod, the commander unit just stands there and does nothing. It might wander a bit and it D-Guns any light units I send after it. Other than that, it doesn't build, and it doesn't run when I bombard it with artillery.
The KAIK log files produced for these unchallenging games are empty of any data. The status message in-game is that the KAIK is running, though.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 11:50
by 1v0ry_k1ng
any chance of changing its s44 settings in a way that it dosnt use engineers to assist?
also, is there any way to make units with the capability to build also be used as attackers?
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 14:48
by Smiff
repoted here that this bot has big problems with recent SVN spring plus CA:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13643
shame because this was by far the best bot for CA, but now it just crashes spring. fix would be hugely appreciated!
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 20:42
by Kloot
@Smiff:
Were you also playing against the corresponding SVN build
of KAIK? If not, you can grab the latest one right here:
http://buildbot.no-ip.org/~buildbot/spr ... /Bot-libs/
@Ivory:
Is there any reason why engineers shouldn't be used to assist
things? And can they be identified uniquely in a generic way?
As for employing builders in offensive roles, that's a bit tricky
(if a unit-type can build and is mobile KAIK will classify it under
CAT_BUILDER, and not actively send units of that type out into
battle). It would probably necessitate storing all matching unit
categories rather than just the first, not entirely sure yet.
@Scientist:
Could you narrow "any mod" down a bit, and pastebin an infolog
from one of those games for me? The KAIK version shipped with
the 0.76b1 installer definitely works with PURE, XTA, BA, EE, etc,
and AFAIK the only mod where the do-nothing-syndrome shows
up (that I've verified myself) is Evolution, so your report is rather
worrysome.
@Bishounen:
De-emphasizing T1 stuff later in the game is what I'm presently
looking to implement, but as discussed on the previous page,
determining a unit's tech-level is next to impossible to get right
automatically (the mod hierarchy is traversed recursively, which
leads to all sorts of complications when it is not a proper tree).
Maybe I should take the NTAI route and shift this burden to mod
devs or even endusers, more flexibility at the cost of total config-
freeness seems like an acceptable tradeoff to me.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 22 Jan 2008, 22:48
by Smiff
Kloot,
good question - i was letting the installer update the bots.
just tried the build at that link and that also crashes though (although it had a different checksum) :/
if someone could please try KAIK with CA so i know it's not just a config problem here please?
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 04:06
by GBscientist
Kloot,
I have attempted to run KAIK 0.13 with XTA 9.42, SimBase .25update3, and Epic Legions 1.4. All result in the 'do nothing' bug, though the Commander will DGun smaller annoyances. I cannot post a log file because the log files generated by KAIK for all the games I have played against it are completely empty.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 04:31
by JimmyJ
When I played S44 against the KAIK it just made engineers, no combat units : (
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 13:16
by Kloot
@Scientist:
I actually meant infolog.txt, the file written by Spring
itself. Alarmingly though, I can confirm that XTA 9.42
indeed brings KAIK to a halt, older versions (<= 9.41)
don't seem to be affected. I didn't test the other two
mods, but if they ran OK before as well then the issue
has to lie with the AI, so consider it under attention.
@Smiff:
FWIW, CA r1234 doesn't crash for me with Spring SVN
r5365 and KAIK built from the same revision, maybe a
full reinstall will "fix" it for you? Sadly I don't really have
any better ideas, without being able to reproduce your
CTD there's not much else I can do.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 14:25
by 1v0ry_k1ng
Kloot wrote:
Is there any reason why engineers shouldn't be used to assist
things? And can they be identified uniquely in a generic way?
1) engineers have about 1/100th of the buildpower of factories
2) factories have the noassist tag and cant be assisted so engineers just gaurd the factories.
Kloot wrote:
As for employing builders in offensive roles, that's a bit tricky
(if a unit-type can build and is mobile KAIK will classify it under
CAT_BUILDER, and not actively send units of that type out into
battle). It would probably necessitate storing all matching unit
categories rather than just the first, not entirely sure yet.
all the infantry have a lower build power than every other unit and can only build flags, is there a way of using either of those attributes to cut them out of the builder defenition?
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 15:25
by Kloot
Thanks Ivory, I just remembered KAIK doesn't check
the canAssist or canBeAssisted tags at all.
This
should be fixable in a jiffy.
Filtering infantry by buildpower is probably not the
way to go though, since those scales can vary per
mod. Do flags in S44 have any special properties
to set them apart from regular buildings, defense
structures, etc?
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 16:20
by yuritch
Flags produce 'metal' (i.e. they are mexes of that mod), and they cannot be harmed by anything except infantry (this probably isn't a usable property to classify them on, too hard to sort through all the weapons, their damages and OnlyTargetCategories).
And they are built not only by infantry (engineers can make flags), which shows another possible solution (the one used by AAI): make some config file that can specify that units 'unitname1', 'unitname2', etc. are to be used as assault and not as builders. Of course, KAIK has no config files, so this option is somewhat inconvenient.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 17:59
by Smiff
Kloot wrote:@Scientist:
@Smiff:
FWIW, CA r1234 doesn't crash for me with Spring SVN
r5365 and KAIK built from the same revision, maybe a
full reinstall will "fix" it for you? Sadly I don't really have
any better ideas, without being able to reproduce your
CTD there's not much else I can do.
did a clean install of the files (r5368) and set config to default with springsettings.exe.. still crashes.
CA v1236
can no-one recreate this? it happens every single time a game is loaded for me.
here's the crash with clean install, default settings:
Code: Select all
Using script script.txt
SDL: 1.2.10
GL: 2.1.1
GL: NVIDIA Corporation
GL: GeForce 8600 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
GLEW: 1.4.0
Using script Commanders
Map: Mars.smf
Mod: "Complete Annihilation r1236" from ca-r1236.sdz
Became player 0
Client connected on slot 0 (wanted number was 0)
Connecting to server
Loading all definitions: 0.738000
Opening map file
Loading Map
Loading detail textures
Creating overhead texture
Creating ground shading
Loading tile file
Reading tiles
Reading tile map
Creating projectile texture
Number of damage types: 9
Loading weapon definitions
Loading unit definitions
Inconsistant move data ground 0 Clogger TANKDS2
WARNING: too many unit categories 33 missed notkrog
Inconsistant move data ground 0 Juggernaut HKBOT5
Loading feature definitions
Generating trees
Parsing unit icons
Creating unit textures
Initializing map features
Reading estimate path costs
Creating sky
Loading LuaRules
LUARULES-DRAW (GADGETS)
LUARULES-DRAW (GADGETS)
Loading LuaGaia
Finalizing...
Spring 0.76b1+svn5368
Reloaded ctrlpanel with: LuaUI/ctrlpanel.txt
LuaUI: bound F11 to the widget selector
LuaUI: bound CTRL+F11 to tweak mode
Loaded widget: BlurApi <api_gfx_blur.lua>
Loaded widget: HealthBars <unit_healthbars.lua>
Loaded widget: Voices <snd_voices.lua>
Loaded widget: Eyes Replacement <gui_eyes_replacement.lua>
Loaded widget: DGunLimit <gui_limit_dgun.lua>
Loaded widget: BuildETA <gui_build_eta.lua>
Loaded widget: Don't Shoot <unit_dontshoot.lua>
Loaded widget: Auto group <unit_auto_group.lua>
Loaded widget: BuildBar <gui_buildbar.lua>
Loaded widget: CA Interface <gui_rooms.lua>
Loaded widget: DCIcon <dbg_dcicon.lua>
Loaded widget: Darkening <gui_darkening.lua>
Loaded widget: Defense Range v3.4 <gui_defenserange.lua>
Loaded widget: Display DPS <gui_display_dps.lua>
Loaded widget: DoLine <cmd_doline.lua>
Loaded widget: DontMove <unit_dontmove.lua>
Loaded widget: IdleBuildersNEW <gui_idle_builders_new.lua>
Loaded widget: Improved MetalMakers <unit_improved_metal_maker.lua>
Loaded widget: MinimapEvents <minimap_events.lua>
Loaded widget: ReclaimInfo <gui_reclaiminfo.lua>
Loaded widget: Start Point Remover <init_start_point_remover.lua>
Loaded widget: Transport AI <unit_transport_ai.lua>
Loaded widget: UnitGroups v5.1 <gui_unitgroups5_1.lua>
Loaded widget: Rank Icons <gui_xp.lua>
Loaded widget: Select n Center! <gui_center_n_select.lua>
Reloaded cmdcolors with: cmdcolors.tmp
Loaded widget: SelectionCircle <gui_selectioncircle.lua>
Loaded widget: LupsManager <gfx_lups_manager.lua>
Loaded widget: Units on Fire <gfx_lups_units_on_fire.lua>
Loaded widget: Lups <lups_wrapper.lua>
Loaded widget: CustomFormations <unit_customformations.lua>
LuaUI v0.2
Player fast_pc joined as 0
GameID: 9b719747e70e99f8d0aed942edad54a6
AI/Bot-libs/KAIK-0.13.dll has C++ interface
AI has enabled cheating.
GlobalAI1: KAI Metal Class by Krogothe
Spring 0.76b1+svn5368 has crashed.
Exception: Access violation (0xc0000005)
Exception Address: 0x6d88bf36
DLL information:
0x00400000 spring
0x7c900000 ntdll
0x7c800000 kernel32
0x77dd0000 ADVAPI32
0x77e70000 RPCRT4
0x77fe0000 Secur32
0x73f10000 dsound
0x77c10000 msvcrt
0x7e410000 USER32
0x77f10000 GDI32
0x774e0000 ole32
0x76b40000 WINMM
0x77c00000 VERSION
0x68b20000 GLU32
0x5ed00000 OPENGL32
0x73760000 DDRAW
0x73bc0000 DCIMAN32
0x76c90000 IMAGEHLP
0x71ad0000 WSOCK32
0x71ab0000 WS2_32
0x71aa0000 WS2HELP
0x6ed80000 glew32
0x10000000 SDL
0x7c340000 MSVCR71
0x00de0000 DevIL
0x66fc0000 freetype6
0x61b80000 zlib1
0x003d0000 ILU
0x69500000 nvoglnt
0x71a50000 mswsock
0x662b0000 hnetcfg
0x71a90000 wshtcpip
0x76c30000 WINTRUST
0x77a80000 CRYPT32
0x77b20000 MSASN1
0x72d20000 wdmaud
0x72d10000 msacm32
0x77be0000 MSACM32
0x77bd0000 midimap
0x73ee0000 KsUser
0x6d880000 KAIK-0.13
0x59a60000 DBGHELP
Stacktrace:
(0) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\AI\Bot-libs\KAIK-0.13.dll [0x6D88BF36]
(1) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\AI\Bot-libs\KAIK-0.13.dll [0x6D88CAD6]
(2) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\AI\Bot-libs\KAIK-0.13.dll [0x6D88D3AF]
(3) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\AI\Bot-libs\KAIK-0.13.dll [0x6D8B6A6E]
(4) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\AI\Bot-libs\KAIK-0.13.dll [0x6D8AE045]
(5) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x007B1B1C]
(6) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x007B463C]
(7) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x0047EAE2]
(8) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x0044C456]
(9) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x0046E7B9]
(10) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x00470A8B]
(11) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x006DADB9]
(12) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x006E4008]
(13) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x006E43DE]
(14) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x006E4616]
(15) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x00961409]
(16) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x004010A7]
(17) E:\Games\Spring-SVNtest\spring.exe [0x00401123]
(18) C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll(RegisterWaitForInputIdle+0x49) [0x7C816FD7]
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 22:14
by Kloot
@Smiff
I committed a potential patch for your problem in r5370,
could you test that build and tell me whether it is stable?
(note: you might have to remove the AI/KAIK/CFGs subdir)
@Yuritch
It does now.
They won't let you override CAT_BUILDER
yet, but making that configurable as well won't be difficult.
@Scientist (again)
It turns out XTA 9.42 includes a Lua gadget which swaps
out the engine-spawned commander for another one (by
silently destroying the first) during sim-frame 0. However,
a side-effect of this is that the new commander remains
uncategorized, KAIK will not recognize it as a builder and
thus think it has no units (ie. no idle ones to assign some
tasks to). To be honest I don't know how to best counter
this new kind of Lua interference, it's something I haven't
really given much thought up until now.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 23 Jan 2008, 23:18
by Smiff
thanks but nope, still crashing.
also the builds here:
http://buildbot.no-ip.org/~buildbot/spr ... /Bot-libs/
i don't understand, they are way too large. and what are the "stripped" ones?
anyway i tried the installer version and the stripped one and deleted the cfg dir - no joy :/
also happens on all my computers so it can't be that obscure?
thanks for trying
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 24 Jan 2008, 04:55
by GBscientist
Kloot, I stand corrected. KAIK 0.13 does work with SimBase, but as I said before, does not work with Epic Legions.
Here is the infolog.txt from my Epic Legions game.
Code: Select all
Using script script.txt
SDL: 1.2.10
GL: 1.3.1017 WinXP Release
GL: ATI Technologies Inc.
GL: RADEON 9200SE DDR x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE2
GLEW: 1.4.0
Section game\mapoptions missing in file buffer
Section game\modoptions missing in file buffer
Using script Commanders
Map: SmallDivide.smf
Mod: "Epic Legions Public Beta v1.4" from Spring EpicLegions v14.sdz
Became player 0
Client connected on slot 0
Connecting to server .
error = 2, gamedata/modrules.lua, [string "gamedata/modrules.lua"]:19: Error parsing modrules.tdf: missing file
Error loading modrules, using defaults
[string "gamedata/modrules.lua"]:19: Error parsing modrules.tdf: missing file
Error parsing units/ig_arvus.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 62
Error parsing units/ig_lightning.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 61
Error parsing units/ig_thunderbolt.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 61
Error parsing units/ig_valkyrie.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 62
WARNING: removed the "ig_infenginseer" entry from the "ig_inftent" build menu
WARNING: removed the "ng_rocketmarine" entry from the "ng_marinesarge" build menu
WARNING: removed the "sm_thunderhawk" entry from the "sm_thawk_pad" build menu
Loading all definitions: 0.394000
You are missing an OpenGL extension needed to use shadowmaps (fragment_program_shadow)
Opening map file
Loading Map
Loading detail textures
Creating overhead texture
Creating ground shading
Loading tile file
Reading tiles
Reading tile map
Creating projectile texture
Number of damage types: 9
Loading weapon definitions
Loading unit definitions
I hope this helps.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 24 Jan 2008, 13:22
by jcnossen
Looks like Epic Legions doesn't work at all. See all the errors:
Code: Select all
error = 2, gamedata/modrules.lua, [string "gamedata/modrules.lua"]:19: Error parsing modrules.tdf: missing file
Error loading modrules, using defaults
[string "gamedata/modrules.lua"]:19: Error parsing modrules.tdf: missing file
Error parsing units/ig_arvus.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 62
Error parsing units/ig_lightning.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 61
Error parsing units/ig_thunderbolt.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 61
Error parsing units/ig_valkyrie.fbi: Bad TDF text at line 62
Those are not cause by KAIK but by Epic Legions itself, it has outdated TDF files.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 02:08
by Smiff
svn5389
CA 1245 crashes with KAIK
CA 1163 STABLE does not crash with KAIK
just noticed this.
i guess CA team changed something KAIK doesn't like.. any ideas what? no response from CA team yet afaik.
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 26 Jan 2008, 14:43
by Kloot
The CA guys recently replaced all of their mod's .fbi unit
definition files with .lua equivalents, which KAIK reads to
get information on a unit's target categories. It might be
that the now-very-old parser used for those files trips up
over their new format, but I'm not certain yet (although I
did get a crash with CA r1245 that originated within the
parser class, it didn't trigger again after restarting).
Re: KAIK 0.13 Unofficial (Spring 0.76b1)
Posted: 28 Jan 2008, 13:32
by AF
erm kloot, TDF syntax and lua syntax aren't the same. It's not that the parser is bugged, its that you're using the wrong parser in the first place.