Spring RTS Engine

I already have a work in progress ingame feature placer mod, very early alpha.

aGorm wrote:Its not that tha tI dont like... Its just that with SM3 I cant map what I imagin, infact nothing I do in it comes out like i imagn. Stuff in old format is ecatly as i imagin it in my mind. Sometimes actully better. Hence, why the smeg would I want to change...

the same stuff I did in grts rivervalley can be done in sm3. in fact it would be done better.

You know what... I just realised I dont give a dam. Everyone can do what they like.

Now Im goona go to bed cause I just worked a 14 hour day.

agorm

dude, what are you doing up so late!?! don't let the discussions on this site keep you up at night.

It was 11:30 there o_O

Fourteen hours? Lightweight, but a lovable one.

aGorm wrote:Its not that tha tI dont like... Its just that with SM3 I cant map what I imagin, infact nothing I do in it comes out like i imagn. Stuff in old format is ecatly as i imagin it in my mind. Sometimes actully better. Hence, why the smeg would I want to change...

And Im not affraid of programing, Im a web designer and I know the basics. Thats not whats in teh way realy. Just that It simply does not give me the result I expect out of it.

aGorm

Ultimately that is the point. The way the current format functions, i make a few dots on a bmp for where i want my trees, i know EXACTLY where they will be and what they will be. There isn't any guess work or trial & error.

When i make my metal map, it all functions as it should, i can enlarge it in a layer over my texturemap and then put a bunch of nifty high-detail mex spots all over the texture, and it looks good.

In SM3, i don't have that kind of precision or control. There is too much guess work and too much typing.

Oh and I had no intention of insulting you directly, while I my often get offensive when i feel strongly about something (what can i say, i'm a judgmental extrovert), it is only because I feel that you don't understand my position.

Maelstrom understood my position back when he and i were working together on a graphical feature placer for SM3, the project fell through, but a lot was accomplish none the less. It was the perfect meld of artist and programmer working together.

The position you seem to take as the programmer is this: "This is the tool I've made, and this is how you are going to use it, if you don't like how you have to use it, tough luck."

Mapconv is unwieldy, but SM3 is more-so. If something as complex and powerful as SM3 is going to work, the people behind it will have to create better tools for us mappers to work with.

With the current format we have photoshop, L3DT, bryce, and terragen, three very useful and powerful tools that many of us are already familiar with. SM3 essential removes the need for all three of those programs, but leaves us with little to actually visualize while we work. We are left with a block of text and a very abstract looking black and white slopemap. Its just not as intuitive as I and many other mappers need.

I know this is a big block of text, but keep in mind that it isn't very often that I, Quanto, feel the need to write so much, but this is truly an issue I feel extremely strongly about. (and if you remember, i was one of the first people to point out the flaws in the system back when it was first announced)

Quanto042 wrote:Maelstrom understood my position back when he and i were working together on a graphical feature placer for SM3, the project fell through, but a lot was accomplish none the less. It was the perfect meld of artist and programmer working together.

Actually, that didnt fall through, its sitting on my hard drive basically complete...

Maelstrom wrote:

Quanto042 wrote:Maelstrom understood my position back when he and i were working together on a graphical feature placer for SM3, the project fell through, but a lot was accomplish none the less. It was the perfect meld of artist and programmer working together.

Actually, that didnt fall through, its sitting on my hard drive basically complete...

And you never told me :X

You make me sad

neddiedrow wrote:Fourteen hours? Lightweight, but a lovable one.

By that I ment I worked (in my job, 1 hour from home) for 14 hours... so 16 with travel... and that I been up about 20. 2 hours spent on meals, ect... means a wopping 2 hours left to do house work. Seeing as the average working day is 7 hours... I'd say thats a hardcore day.

aGorm

Quanto, if you make an sm3 mp by doing all the work and then saying finished then you made of fail. Your supposed to load it up in spring while working on it in an sdd folder so you can modify it without repackaging.

Also, the SM3 metalmap is just jpeg. It can be rescaled and edited as much a you want with no recompiling or fiddly text. You just add a line metalmap=metalmap.bmp

But, I disagree with you when you say 'this is the tool we made, here you go use it the way we want you to use it', because your not saying anything, your not suggesting anything, your not saying how you want to use it, your just complaining and that isnt helpful.

aGorm wrote:

neddiedrow wrote:Fourteen hours? Lightweight, but a lovable one.

By that I ment I worked (in my job, 1 hour from home) for 14 hours... so 16 with travel... and that I been up about 20. 2 hours spent on meals, ect... means a wopping 2 hours left to do house work. Seeing as the average working day is 7 hours... I'd say thats a hardcore day.

aGorm

That sounds like me during the university year. I'm taking it a little lighter right now; 8 for work, 4 for travel, 6 for other work...

For the sake of correctness don't confuse lua or any other programming with SM3 maps. SM3 just has bugs, no decal support and basically no practical tools.

That you can actually read the map description files in a text editor as opposed to SMF should not be seen as a disadvantage.

JC, what skills would be required for one to take up the task where you diverted your resources mainly to the Command Engine? I can look for a few bored programmers if I know exactly what they need to be able to do, and I'm willing to put the effort in to tracking down who we need. Is the code well-documented for whatever allows SM3?

neddiedrow wrote:Here is one of the ones I've been working on; and no, no water is supposed to be on the landmass.

Looks like a cool map; the way the land is set-up encourages different tactics.

In response to the topic of this thread.. I've always tried to create maps that cater to the most competitive spring players. Mostly maps that are well-balanced and suited for tournament play. I think it is important for every mapper to listen to the feed-back they receive and modify their map to suite that. Although it is somewhat of a double-edged sword... You can't make everyone happy. Speed-metalers (do people still constantly play that? I've only spent maybe 20-30 minutes in the lobby this whole year) might not like tournament-style maps with OTA-style metal distribution, and vice versa.

I think in the end most mappers create maps that they would like to play themselves. Personally, I create competition style maps because I love seeing the best players face-off on these maps. Ever since starcraft, I've loved to watch replays of pro players; this has definitely influenced myself when it comes to making maps.

I'm also working on a Desert Map, a map for VonGratz, a map which was inspired by Splintered Tropics, two sea maps (one with islands) and a Swamp map.

Maelstrom wrote:Someone needs to make mobile factorys!

I've done them since ages. Look at this for instance.

Maelstrom wrote:
Someone needs to make mobile factorys!
I've done them since ages. Look at this for instance.

OMG!
I dont have seen it!
Hi!I have a detail question....
The distance from the pad =70 in the LUA not is the same as the Fedcom from this base, that is 120.Why?
Im VERY interested as Im finishing a CORE Carrier that produces aircraft.
Another question..
Could the size of the 3do footprints, and/or the model that grabbles,
be very small or some needs to have the size of the vtol footprint?

VonGratz

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OOOOPs
The first question, about the distance, I auto-answered via Script comments :idea:
VonGratz