Atlantai Please Read
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And I would also suggest a reading of Lao Tzu' Tao te chign and Sun Tzus Art fo war (ping fa something) both available at http://www.sonshi.com.
And before you ask there are lots of chapters but most are small enough to write on your finger nails.
And before you ask there are lots of chapters but most are small enough to write on your finger nails.
Every thing can be explained if you look hard enough and long enough. If you read the bible and say "sure" then that seems to me to be the easy way out. Its harder to actualy TRY to understand the univers then it is to follow a set of teaching that billions of other have fallowed for thousands of years for no good reson. I mean all the resons either boild down to "i belive it" and "Cause i was taught it" the rest is just fancy pyscobabble and other philisophical rambalings. Also iv always though that you souldent trust someone who says one thing, then dose something else. Then says another thing that condradicts the first two things! The Bible dose that a lot. Some peaople say that relligion creates peace. Cough Inquasition! this is the most obvious religice violence thingy. I always get realy queasy when i think about the tourcher devices they used back then. They reached a level of ingenuity and crulty i hope that never is reached again. Being tourchered, then burned to death on the stake (whitch invovles not only being lit on fire, but also havei ing your self coted with hog fat so that you burn longer, also having sharp wood slices shoved in your toenails and fingernails then having THOSE lit on fire as well) and for the most IDDDIOTIC Reson i can think of. That you belive in the teachings of a different guy then the people tourchering you. Thats like clubbing someone to death over different interprtations of Star Wars (that is, if star wars had any deep philisophical rammifications, whitch some people might aruge). While somepeople might argue that it was People not Religion causeing this, and to an extent this is true. BUT religion was created by people, as much as many would not like to think so, and a eniter section of the Bible, Deutrinomiey, is devouted to tourchering heritics!
Also did you know that Gallilao wasnet cleared of official charges of Herrisy untill the 90's, while Hitler was never excommuniucated...even though it dosent realy matter cause both are long dead, bit WHY is a brilliant sientest is officealy persicuted by the church long long long long after his death, while one of the most monsterus dictatiors in the world wasent even officealy condemed for crimes against humainkind.
Also did you know that Gallilao wasnet cleared of official charges of Herrisy untill the 90's, while Hitler was never excommuniucated...even though it dosent realy matter cause both are long dead, bit WHY is a brilliant sientest is officealy persicuted by the church long long long long after his death, while one of the most monsterus dictatiors in the world wasent even officealy condemed for crimes against humainkind.
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Charlemagne
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 18 Apr 2005, 17:59
*aGorm yawns, gets up and adds a post*
Humm, While I havent rad all of this, I have a point to make.
I am a Christain.
This does not stop me beliveing in things like evolution, the big bang, nor does it stop me in my search for trurt and how things work.
I'll admit that in the past the church was often ridiculasly pig headed (about Gallilao and things of that type) but that was manly becasue a few corupt power hungry supposed christians didn't hold with the ideas. And alot of other people are gullibe and belive them.
People say that religion cause wars... but it doesn't, its mearly the front different parties use to have a war.
Alantai Firestar, I've found somthing to finaly dissagree with you on it looks...
We are not god. If we were then how did we get here. Face it that there is no way life just evolved all by itself. What... did a lizard with slightly more fethers mate with another one with slightly more fetheres and then found that its ofspring could actully fall a little thuther without hurting themselves, at which point the ofspring mated to make lizzards with even more fethers that could almost hover, which then mated to make birds??
(PS, many many steps missed there...) Fat chance. The lizards wich had more fethers would never accidentaly discover that haveing more fethers and making waings would be a good idea by themselves. There has to be somthing that mad them grow wings and make birds. At which point id liek to point out thers only realy one possible answer. GOD.
That can be any god you like, it doesn't have to be the one i belive in.
But face that theres no way the universe just so happens to exist all by itself. Sooner or later, not matter where you go, you'll find that teh only logical answer for somthing is GOD.
God might mean an alien super race that keep us as a pet prodject. It might mean the classic god. It may just be some sort of hive mind that controlls us all. Belive what you will. However, you'll never perswade me that theres no god, cause its blatent ther is.
Also, anyone that wants to try the well why hasn't god stoped those people doin that, or any of that stuff, It's simple. He gave use free will. We can do what the hell we like. Whats he going to get if he just made a load of people that would worship him 24/7 if they didn't have a say? He'd get nothing from it. Only with a choice does anything have any worth. The downside is evil dictators and such.
enough for tonight...
aGorm
*Hits the sack...*
Humm, While I havent rad all of this, I have a point to make.
I am a Christain.
This does not stop me beliveing in things like evolution, the big bang, nor does it stop me in my search for trurt and how things work.
I'll admit that in the past the church was often ridiculasly pig headed (about Gallilao and things of that type) but that was manly becasue a few corupt power hungry supposed christians didn't hold with the ideas. And alot of other people are gullibe and belive them.
People say that religion cause wars... but it doesn't, its mearly the front different parties use to have a war.
Alantai Firestar, I've found somthing to finaly dissagree with you on it looks...
We are not god. If we were then how did we get here. Face it that there is no way life just evolved all by itself. What... did a lizard with slightly more fethers mate with another one with slightly more fetheres and then found that its ofspring could actully fall a little thuther without hurting themselves, at which point the ofspring mated to make lizzards with even more fethers that could almost hover, which then mated to make birds??
(PS, many many steps missed there...) Fat chance. The lizards wich had more fethers would never accidentaly discover that haveing more fethers and making waings would be a good idea by themselves. There has to be somthing that mad them grow wings and make birds. At which point id liek to point out thers only realy one possible answer. GOD.
That can be any god you like, it doesn't have to be the one i belive in.
But face that theres no way the universe just so happens to exist all by itself. Sooner or later, not matter where you go, you'll find that teh only logical answer for somthing is GOD.
God might mean an alien super race that keep us as a pet prodject. It might mean the classic god. It may just be some sort of hive mind that controlls us all. Belive what you will. However, you'll never perswade me that theres no god, cause its blatent ther is.
Also, anyone that wants to try the well why hasn't god stoped those people doin that, or any of that stuff, It's simple. He gave use free will. We can do what the hell we like. Whats he going to get if he just made a load of people that would worship him 24/7 if they didn't have a say? He'd get nothing from it. Only with a choice does anything have any worth. The downside is evil dictators and such.
enough for tonight...
aGorm
*Hits the sack...*
aGorm, just because you can not conceive of a reasonable non-divine cause of life does not preclude the existence of one.
The very same argument had been made with winged insects. However, recent research has shown that winged insects that walk on water surface tension can use their wings to propel themselves across the water even when they have been cut down to the size of large sound emitting organs on other insects. The point is it that there are billions of organs and features on life forms, and the evolutionary process by which they may have come to be is not always obvious.
The very same argument had been made with winged insects. However, recent research has shown that winged insects that walk on water surface tension can use their wings to propel themselves across the water even when they have been cut down to the size of large sound emitting organs on other insects. The point is it that there are billions of organs and features on life forms, and the evolutionary process by which they may have come to be is not always obvious.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
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Charlemagne
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 18 Apr 2005, 17:59
Couldn't agree with you more.People say that religion cause wars... but it doesn't, its mearly the front different parties use to have a war.
Concerning evolution, I agree as well. I mean, there just is no explanation why such stupid creatures such as kakatooas, hamsters, cats and humans could evolve, besides the fact that Eris was bored one day and decide to make some funny things to watch. =)
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
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- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
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Charlemagne
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 18 Apr 2005, 17:59
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Charlemagne wrote:...
In 560 AD everyone knew that thunder was the wrath of the Gods/God, today we know it is when two differentlyt charged clouds collide or soemthing like that.
...
Whenever I run across something that seems to have been divine intervention, I blame Eris. ...
.Therefore, god must exist!? I just wonder then, who made god... Because it seems that if the universe doesn't exists by itself (made by god), then god must have also be made by something else. I wonder who made that something else...aGorm wrote:... If we were then how did we get here. ...
Therefore, god must exist!? If one can't explain how evolution occurs (even though so many cientists do) that is, of course, the prof of god's existence!?Charlemagne wrote:... I mean, there just is no explanation why such stupid creatures such as kakatooas, hamsters, cats and humans could evolve ...
Also, every one knows that, how god came to existance and why/if gods exists, is widely known by everyone...
I wonder how many more centuries will people keep using the same arguments and excuses to prove themselves that there is something else
.Yes but would that realy happen? Like i said... would a lizzard just randomly have a few fethers more and hence survive better when falling out of trees? And then i just so happens to mate with another that has more fethers aswell? The whole idea that they just slowly changed from one to the other without somthing making them do it is ludics.Random mutation and survival of the fitest, they filled a niche in the eco system.
I cant say that god esists in the sence that most people assume he would. Theres no way i can argue that to be the case even if i belive it.
But you have to face that thers somthing. Even if its actully just a guy in another set of dimensions that part of some other race that decided he wanted his own privet univers to play around with. Theres no way all this happened by itself (all this as in Life the univers and everything)
aGorm
Oh my my my my my, you do not udnerstand.
aGorm, my philosophy does not need sentient life as a prerequisite.
dog can hold the cocnept of food, a bacterium can hold the concept of other bacterium. The universe eisted because fo the cocnept of the universe. Physics is more likely to say though that the unvierse is a quantum wave fluctuation that cannot be resovled because there are no outside observers, and that the unvierse spontaneously appeared and willl exist because the overral energy in the universe is 0 and thus no energy needs to eb given abc in the uncertainty principle, thus the universe and all its contents are a gigantic version fo virtual particls, exept virtual particles do not have an voerral energy of 0 therefore they cease to exist after a short period of time.
My philoshy does not dictate that we ourselves are god. I was saying that one correct interpretation and more logical and reasonable interpretation fo the bible is that WE are god. Remember that in the imes of the bible when the new testamanet was written the religions fo europe where an outer and iner mystery type religion where parables where told in the outer mysteries and those who where let intot he inner where taught the meanings behind the stories.
y philosophy does nto conflict in a violating way, my philosophy eamdns that ti conflicts with itself not in a conflicts with b but b cofnlicts with b and a conflicts with a. My philosophy is of my doing and not a boo or someone elses and I now it is true because ti fits with everyhtign I could ever now and more. It does not need common sense as a prerequisite due to its very definition and explanation of common sense.
Evolution is a result that came about due to cocnepts and curiosity and natural thought processes.
The darwinian theory of evolution si wrong, it ahs been prooven, creatures have some ability to enforce will over the mutations they make. An experiment involving hudnreds fo plants that where mutated to have a disease and then grown. It was found that after 10 generations, 80% of the siblings had fixed the gene the scientists had broen and healed themselves of the genetic disease they had been given and these are repeatable results.
Also your survival fo the fittest is correct, but that leads you as to who si the fittest. Who survives longer? The bigg beefy animal capable fo fending off enemies and producing many offspring and feeding its family, or the small weak couin whois hopeless at anythign but is able to woo the opposite sex easily with gifts and good looks and thus gets lots of sex even though the better mate would be the other animal? Social and environmental issues come to play here wherethe fittest is not always the one that survives. Did anyone see that Dr.Tatiane Sex advice for all creation last ngiht on channel 4? Now that was intersting, though I dunno why they sung so much.......
aGorm, my philosophy does not need sentient life as a prerequisite.
dog can hold the cocnept of food, a bacterium can hold the concept of other bacterium. The universe eisted because fo the cocnept of the universe. Physics is more likely to say though that the unvierse is a quantum wave fluctuation that cannot be resovled because there are no outside observers, and that the unvierse spontaneously appeared and willl exist because the overral energy in the universe is 0 and thus no energy needs to eb given abc in the uncertainty principle, thus the universe and all its contents are a gigantic version fo virtual particls, exept virtual particles do not have an voerral energy of 0 therefore they cease to exist after a short period of time.
My philoshy does not dictate that we ourselves are god. I was saying that one correct interpretation and more logical and reasonable interpretation fo the bible is that WE are god. Remember that in the imes of the bible when the new testamanet was written the religions fo europe where an outer and iner mystery type religion where parables where told in the outer mysteries and those who where let intot he inner where taught the meanings behind the stories.
y philosophy does nto conflict in a violating way, my philosophy eamdns that ti conflicts with itself not in a conflicts with b but b cofnlicts with b and a conflicts with a. My philosophy is of my doing and not a boo or someone elses and I now it is true because ti fits with everyhtign I could ever now and more. It does not need common sense as a prerequisite due to its very definition and explanation of common sense.
Evolution is a result that came about due to cocnepts and curiosity and natural thought processes.
The darwinian theory of evolution si wrong, it ahs been prooven, creatures have some ability to enforce will over the mutations they make. An experiment involving hudnreds fo plants that where mutated to have a disease and then grown. It was found that after 10 generations, 80% of the siblings had fixed the gene the scientists had broen and healed themselves of the genetic disease they had been given and these are repeatable results.
Also your survival fo the fittest is correct, but that leads you as to who si the fittest. Who survives longer? The bigg beefy animal capable fo fending off enemies and producing many offspring and feeding its family, or the small weak couin whois hopeless at anythign but is able to woo the opposite sex easily with gifts and good looks and thus gets lots of sex even though the better mate would be the other animal? Social and environmental issues come to play here wherethe fittest is not always the one that survives. Did anyone see that Dr.Tatiane Sex advice for all creation last ngiht on channel 4? Now that was intersting, though I dunno why they sung so much.......
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
Actually physics states that t is impossible to knwo the positions and motions of all particles at once, nto to mention that for each particle there is an infitesemal amount of virtual companions each representing a probable location and motion fo that particular particle then there is quantum probability and spontaneous reactions that cannot be predited and so on. Whatsmore there are numerous probable alternative positions that are actually correct and then numerous instances of the actual copy of the positions and movements that you obtain fi it where indeed posible and then there's the the article exists and it doesnt exist problem.
The universe we see is just what we see when all the probabilities cancel out and the most probable things are kept, such as the most probable ontents of a particular area of space, its most probable motion and its most robable position.
All of which is suported by maths.
Whatsmore the positions and energies fo the subatomic particles in question may change based on their motion and timeframe, not to mention other particles travelling though time in other ways due to future or past events, or the possibility that those particles may simply cease to exist due to the uncertainty principle, or display highly erratic behaviour (all the air moleculaes around me may move to the corner at the same time thus creatign a vacuum and suffocating me for no reason btu it is highly unlikely but could spontaneously happen for no reason at any moment)
The universe we see is just what we see when all the probabilities cancel out and the most probable things are kept, such as the most probable ontents of a particular area of space, its most probable motion and its most robable position.
All of which is suported by maths.
Whatsmore the positions and energies fo the subatomic particles in question may change based on their motion and timeframe, not to mention other particles travelling though time in other ways due to future or past events, or the possibility that those particles may simply cease to exist due to the uncertainty principle, or display highly erratic behaviour (all the air moleculaes around me may move to the corner at the same time thus creatign a vacuum and suffocating me for no reason btu it is highly unlikely but could spontaneously happen for no reason at any moment)