Flak issue can others confirm?
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- MasterBel2
- Posts: 347
- Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03
Flak issue can others confirm?
I'm not 100% sure of this, and I don't currently have a specific replay to show (but I will try to find one)
To anyone else does it seem that immobile flak (particularly arm) doesn't actually use its whole range?
Also, I just finished building the flak in this game: http://replays.springrts.com/replay/3e8 ... df0c956a9/ and it instantly fired. Any explanation for this? Cost me a bit of time. It could also show something about the flak range - I don't think it actually fired against the liche that attacked me. Not sure though. Is there any explanation for this?
And yes. I will learn to both build more flak and space stuff properly. Hopefully :D
To anyone else does it seem that immobile flak (particularly arm) doesn't actually use its whole range?
Also, I just finished building the flak in this game: http://replays.springrts.com/replay/3e8 ... df0c956a9/ and it instantly fired. Any explanation for this? Cost me a bit of time. It could also show something about the flak range - I don't think it actually fired against the liche that attacked me. Not sure though. Is there any explanation for this?
And yes. I will learn to both build more flak and space stuff properly. Hopefully :D
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Armyork:
name = "Phalanx",
sightdistance = 390,
mobileflak = {
range = 775,
},
It is essentially blind. Pair it with a high los unit for best results.
Edit, OHHH you said immobile flak... derp:
armflak:
name = "Flakker",
sightdistance = 525,
armflak_gun = {
range = 775,
},
(same issue basically)
name = "Phalanx",
sightdistance = 390,
mobileflak = {
range = 775,
},
It is essentially blind. Pair it with a high los unit for best results.
Edit, OHHH you said immobile flak... derp:
armflak:
name = "Flakker",
sightdistance = 525,
armflak_gun = {
range = 775,
},
(same issue basically)
- MasterBel2
- Posts: 347
- Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Should this really be an issue though, especially when the flak is in my base? I could see the Liche coming from miles away. Or can the flak not actually shoot to full range even when ample radar not provided?
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Oh. People actually use that tag?
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
@forbs all the *A games do.
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
- MasterBel2
- Posts: 347
- Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
So I have a concrete example: @ 14:30 approx in this replay:
aleksey[HiGH] has a flak vehicle on the front line, and seeing the air units coming in he chases them. Even though the banshees are well within its range the flak does not fire. Why?
This is a mod based on BA by Culosburro aka [Troll]Mando aka quakeman2 (memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10969 if you want to confirm that there have been no changes), which was only recently split. Afaik he's made no changes that could be relevant to this. I'm pretty sure and the changelog he's shown me (http://reba.blackholehost.net) suggests this is true. Morover, I see this behaviour in BA aswell.
aleksey[HiGH] has a flak vehicle on the front line, and seeing the air units coming in he chases them. Even though the banshees are well within its range the flak does not fire. Why?
This is a mod based on BA by Culosburro aka [Troll]Mando aka quakeman2 (memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10969 if you want to confirm that there have been no changes), which was only recently split. Afaik he's made no changes that could be relevant to this. I'm pretty sure and the changelog he's shown me (http://reba.blackholehost.net) suggests this is true. Morover, I see this behaviour in BA aswell.
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
I haven't looked, but does BA use 3d targeting/range for flak cannons? If so then that is probably why, because the aircraft literally is out if range, but the 2d circle on the ground doesn't show you the real 3d envelope of the Flak's true range.
- MasterBel2
- Posts: 347
- Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Ok that could explain why. Will severely change how I plan about antiair placement. Is there a typical cruising alitude for aircraft (especially bombers?) If so then could there be a second circle that will indicate the range as relevant to the expected altitude of bombers.
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Flak are the best anti structure unit in ba, if you can land planes in an enemy base with flak or mercuries, they will annihilate the base with friendly fire.
Also if you can get your intended target between your flaks and air units you can deal serious dps. I've seen Decay's buzzsaw die in under 10 seconds to 2 flaks firing at aircons behind, it was awesome.
Also if you can get your intended target between your flaks and air units you can deal serious dps. I've seen Decay's buzzsaw die in under 10 seconds to 2 flaks firing at aircons behind, it was awesome.
- MasterBel2
- Posts: 347
- Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
That is just wrong. Flak shouldn't be able to do that. Targetting shouldn't let it. If it can't fire it can't fire. Why does it even try???
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Ok, lets nip this in the bud. Spring's targeting works perfectly. Period.
If units are misbehaving, that is a mod problem, not an engine problem.
In this case, the AOE from the flak shell is damaging friendly structures because it is shooting at landed enemy aircraft in the base. The thing you should be up in arms about is that flak shells do friendly fire damage.
Edit: Engine, not game -_-
If units are misbehaving, that is a mod problem, not an engine problem.
In this case, the AOE from the flak shell is damaging friendly structures because it is shooting at landed enemy aircraft in the base. The thing you should be up in arms about is that flak shells do friendly fire damage.
Edit: Engine, not game -_-
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Flak should be able to do that... friendly fire always has and it is core part of the game, you just didn't notice.
To change a core feature of the game would be as ridiculous as changing the bind for firing at ground or ability to transport enemy commanders.
To change a core feature of the game would be as ridiculous as changing the bind for firing at ground or ability to transport enemy commanders.
- Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Bad gameplay design is bad gameplay design, no matter how hard you try to spin it.Ares wrote:Flak should be able to do that... friendly fire always has and it is core part of the game, you just didn't notice.
To change a core feature of the game would be as ridiculous as changing the bind for firing at ground or ability to transport enemy commanders.
Edit2: Decided to be nice and not rip apart the argument.
- Silentwings
- Posts: 3720
- Joined: 25 Oct 2008, 00:23
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
+1, natural and it makes players think/cooperate.friendly fire always has and it is core part of the game,
Flak, unlike most units, are set to not care if they deal friendly fire, because they often have to kill a few allied planes in the crush to stop an enemy air attack. Springs targeting doesn't differentiate between a friendly fire that does 1 allied damage and one that does 10k allied damage - its just does/doesn't (which you might reasonably dislike).Targetting shouldn't let it.
Fact that this has amusing consequences that a good player can use to great advantage in very specific situations is something I like - fun to watch, rare, hard to pull off, adds richness to the game. There's a million things like this in BA :)
- MasterBel2
- Posts: 347
- Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 12:03
Re: Flak issue can others confirm?
Ok. I'll be more careful with flak in the future.
I'd still like to know why it immediately fired after being built with no enemy air close, but it's not happened again so I guess it's not much of an issue :)
I'd still like to know why it immediately fired after being built with no enemy air close, but it's not happened again so I guess it's not much of an issue :)