UI discussion

[Jools]

EDIT: Wait, now I'm super-confused. Wasn't this BAR related in the first place? Now it's just a general UI topic?

The second post was edited by an anonymous moderator, it was likely moved to the general forum.

[AF]

Of course you never show off enough Smoth, you're a tease, you even create forum threads about your junk yet I've never seen so much as a hair..

[D2158]

I don't think the current BAR UI will appeal to BA players and could hinder adoption of BAR

RedUI isn't exactly cosmetically pleasing but it is functional and efficient
if it is to be replaced replace it with something that will be familiar to BA players


I wonder if instead of releasing BAR as a separate game, it could be released to run alongside BA and both versions could connect to the same server
this could be like a transitional period

the loading screens of BA could be changed to advertisements for BAR
an extra column could be added to springlobby showing which game version players are using to connect (BA or BAR)
this could help peak player interest and speed up adoption

but BAR would need to be somewhat familiar to BA players, it is bad enough having to learn new unit models,
a completely different UI could be a step to far

that's not to say these things couldn't be changed in future
but priority one should be getting BA players playing BAR and you need to make the transition as painless as possible

[smoth]

I don't think the current BAR UI will appeal to BA players and could hinder adoption of BAR

What can be done better?

RedUI isn't exactly cosmetically pleasing but it is functional and efficient
if it is to be replaced replace it with something that will be familiar to BA players

redui isn't it's widgets. I keep trying to tell people chili is not the ZK gui widgets. Redui as a framework is limited. What particular Redui gui elements do you like, because of the nature of spring and widgets, it should be possible to port them to chili and then make them available to the community.

I wonder if instead of releasing BAR as a separate game, it could be released to run alongside BA and both versions could connect to the same server
this could be like a transitional period

That is an interesting idea but odds are it will depend on the hosts. Normally I would say rip the bandaid off and just outright replace it. HOWEVER, there will be bugs and having both available is a good idea!

the loading screens of BA could be changed to advertisements for BAR
an extra column could be added to springlobby showing which game version players are using to connect (BA or BAR)
this could help peak player interest and speed up adoption

Also an EXCELLENT IDEA!

Thank you for the detailed post, kudos!

[raaar]

RedUI isn't exactly cosmetically pleasing but it is functional and efficient
if it is to be replaced replace it with something that will be familiar to BA players

I picked it for my game because the BA UI seemed closer to what I wanted, just needed filtering, spacing and facing buttons and a tooltip with more information. Picking a Chilli-based UI and moving back from it seems like lots more trouble (I have other priorities).

My tooltip doesn't even use Red UI..I just set the border and background to match. It's based on a simple text replacement widget from KP, that's why it has limited formatting. But i'd say it's pretty space efficient considering the font size isn't tiny.

One way to improve consistency in sizes is using icons. Icons need a tooltip explaining them (may mean more work). And if you need lots of different ones it can confuse new players (it's much easier to call something by its name than to describe the icon).

Using chili framework, there seem to be either :
A- proofs of concept or widgets for specific purposes (testing, design aid, etc. Smoth's examples look nothing like rts UI)
B- full UI implementations that differ significantly from *A game UI (ZK and EVO)

[Forboding Angel]

Lets try this again... viewtopic.php?f=86&t=33404

[gajop]

Just to be clear, player feedback on what framework to use it not welcome. They're not technical enough to be making these kind of decisions or suggestions.
It's perfectly fine to complain about particular UIs though, but don't imply that chili has a certain unique look or interface, as you can pretty much do anything with it.

[Jools]

You expect players to know how to separate the framework from the UI? Maybe you should explain the difference and also why feedback is not welcome for the framework. Imo feedback should always be welcome or you're doing something wrong (there are courses in how to handle non-constructive feedback).

Maybe a lot of the feedback is not constructive but it's also not constructive to shoot the messenger. The UI won't be better just because you kill off everyone who criticises it.

[gajop]

You expect players to know how to separate the framework from the UI?

If you visit these forums, yep.

Maybe you should explain the difference

Maybe you should google "framework".

and also why feedback is not welcome for the framework.

See my previous post.

Imo feedback should always be welcome or you're doing something wrong.

Not really. Players should only comment on the game (product) as they see/use it.
It's none of their concern how it's developed or designed, unless they're interested to participate in it, which doesn't make them just "players" anymore.

[smoth]

bad ui

Useless bullshit like this doesn't help devs make it better

replace with red ui please

because why?

No jools, users have zero say in the ui framework. If there is a bug hey great report it but the above 2 posts are the kind of stuff that is worthless.

[Jools]

Not really. Players should only comment on the game (product) as they see/use it.

That's what they are doing and that's where you told them to not to give feedback on the 'framework'

[PicassoCT]

The problem is - you have games with organic growth.. things constantly change. So the classic approach of ui-design as seen in companys would not work in open source. You can do a great stair and benches in a cathedral.. you can do a great stair on a basar- but where it leads too might be in disarray next week, and gone by next month.

So a default gui in a open source project, is something that is auto-generated. Everything else is prone to ghost-townnism and bitter feelings due to wasted work.

[Jazcash]

Cremuss did this a few years ago - Just want to see what people think of it these days.

[PicassoCT]

Its minimalism done right

There are limitations to number and depth of menues..

Advanced Options must be hidden by default - with a Show advanced options checkbox.
Or they must be selectable via using a existing button as a "hold and move any direction submenue"..

http://www.cremuss.net/UI.html

Basically GUIs are for beginner, so complexity hiding is a art there.. and the standard gui is actually quite good at this. Basics only.. meaning buildoptions and standard orders.

[Orfelius]

Can I just say that this screenshot is golden Jazcash?
But then it might be just because I have played Starcraft and ZK more than BA so I am more used to their layouts.

And to everybody saying that engine UI is good: yeah it is good for the 90s of the past century.

[Forboding Angel]

Can I just say that this screenshot is golden Jazcash?
But then it might be just because I have played Starcraft and ZK more than BA so I am more used to their layouts.

And to everybody saying that engine UI is good: yeah it is good for the 90s of the past century.

That's not a screenshot. That is a shop that cremuss made when supcom 1 was still a new game.