Updating Mediawiki / Using default mediawiki template

[abma]

Currently we use Mediawiki 1.19.x which isn't supported any more: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle

because of this, we must upgrade it which very likely will break the template / layout.

Would it be a big problem, when the current wikis template is reset to "default mediawiki" template? (afaik we had such a discussion already some time ago and if i remember right its ok to reset it to default)

I don't have the time/knowledge to fix/update the template after the upgrade.

[jK]

I don't have the time/knowledge to fix/update the template after the upgrade.

THEN DON'T DO IT

I am pissed this website regresses more and more just cause people who never contributed to the website mean they have to `upgrade` stuff and then are to lazy to reintergrate the old themes.

[abma]

THEN DON'T DO IT

ok, then shutdown the wiki because of security holes? or will someone else update it?

reintergrate the old themes

that wasn't possible because the old theme was incompatible, current theme is a complete new theme (with some stuff "copied" from the old theme)

i've more the impression you don't know what and why it was changed.

[Forboding Angel]

I don't have the time/knowledge to fix/update the template after the upgrade.

THEN DON'T DO IT

I am pissed this website regresses more and more just cause people who never contributed to the website mean they have to `upgrade` stuff and then are to lazy to reintergrate the old themes.

Bishpls. Says the guy who wiped out half a years worth if work in an instant, because he was lazy.

Nothing here has regressed, get over yourself.


I suggest porting the wiki to github.

[jK]

THEN DON'T DO IT

ok, then shutdown the wiki because of security holes? or will someone else update it?

1. It was FORB, AF & YOU who wanted to switch to wordpress which is a security hole itself!
2. When longterm support runs out for a version, it means they will stop porting back security bugfixes to it. So did we ever applied just one of those?? NO. SO what changes for us? NOTHING
3. Did we had any problems so far with it? NO

reintergrate the old themes

that wasn't possible because the old theme was incompatible, current theme is a complete new theme (with some stuff "copied" from the old theme)

i've more the impression you don't know what and why it was changed.

WRONG
It was just said "stuff changed, i am too lazy to fix it".

Bishpls. Says the guy who wiped out half a years worth if work in an instant, because he was lazy.

I didn't deleted it cause I was lazy, I deleted it cause you & abma did bullshit on test server.
You could have setup a local website copy on your pc, but no, you used test server for stuff it wasn't meant for. So you had to expect others breaking your work.

I suggest porting the wiki to github.

WTF THE WIKI IS ON GITHUB

[abma]

2. When longterm support runs out for a version, it means they will stop porting back security bugfixes to it. So did we ever applied just one of those?? NO. SO what changes for us? NOTHING

i installed several updates of phpbb/mediawiki/mantis to close security holes. it should have be done more often, but... yeah, lack of time makes it difficult.

3. Did we had any problems so far with it? NO

no, because updates were installed.


installing security updates is a must!

[Anarchid]

Nothing here has regressed, get over yourself.

Source: User 1184

There's no way to delete a post, so i guess i'll add something constructive. It doesn't seem that the upgrade is *urgent*, so it could take time to happen from what i see.

[abma]

There's no way to delete a post

you need permissions to do so!

It doesn't seem that the upgrade is *urgent*, so it could take time to happen from what i see.

in 2 weeks it is urgent...

[Anarchid]

you need permissions to do so!

I need more power.

in 2 weeks it is urgent...

The second-previous relevant security update for mediawiki (1.19.23) was announced on Wed Dec 17 21:23:39 UTC 2014, and pushed to spring-website master on Feb 16th, 2015, no idea when it was deployed; almost exactly two months.

I don't disagree that installing security updates asap is important, but evidently that was not always the case.

[abma]

I don't disagree that installing security updates asap is important, but evidently that was not always the case.

yes, thats bad and has to be better in future!

[Forboding Angel]

THEN DON'T DO IT

ok, then shutdown the wiki because of security holes? or will someone else update it?

1. It was FORB, AF & YOU who wanted to switch to wordpress which is a security hole itself!
2. When longterm support runs out for a version, it means they will stop porting back security bugfixes to it. So did we ever applied just one of those?? NO. SO what changes for us? NOTHING
3. Did we had any problems so far with it? NO

reintergrate the old themes

that wasn't possible because the old theme was incompatible, current theme is a complete new theme (with some stuff "copied" from the old theme)

i've more the impression you don't know what and why it was changed.

WRONG
It was just said "stuff changed, i am too lazy to fix it".

Bishpls. Says the guy who wiped out half a years worth if work in an instant, because he was lazy.

I didn't deleted it cause I was lazy, I deleted it cause you & abma did bullshit on test server.
You could have setup a local website copy on your pc, but no, you used test server for stuff it wasn't meant for. So you had to expect others breaking your work.

I suggest porting the wiki to github.

WTF THE WIKI IS ON GITHUB

Wordpress is not a security hole. What a crock of FUD and bullshit. Get the hell on with that shit.

Updating wordpress is simple, and everything that matters is backwards compatible. You're insane. So your #2 is also bullshit.
Wordpress was not going to be used for the wiki, it was mediawiki with a bootstrap skin that was very mobile friendly.

3. Did we had any problems so far with it? NO

So far with what? Mediawiki? Mediawiki is shit, and it always has been shit, just because you're used to it doesn't make it any less shitty.

Reintegrating old theme:
WAS NOT FUCKING POSSIBLE, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!

So instead of saying "Hey guys I need to delete this, here is an exported copy of what you had", you instead say "lol fuck these guys *delete*". You may be an excellent coder, but you're bad at webserver admin.

I would have had backups of the db, but abma INSISTED on putting everything in one database, making it impossible, so he is at fault for that. Regardless though, anyone who isn't an idiot would have simply said something before going around deleting shit.

The mediawiki files may be on github, but the wiki is not ported to github. Jesus, talking to you is -_-
Example: https://github.com/EvolutionRTS/Evolution-RTS/wiki

Github wiki is better than mediawiki and it makes sense for the wiki to be using github. Additionally there are tools to port it automagically, so it's not a farfetched proposition.

[FLOZi]

Github wiki is better than mediawiki and it makes sense for the wiki to be using github.

I disagree.


I hope my view carries some weight on this.

[Forboding Angel]

On what grounds do you disagree?

As in, what would be the bad sides of wiki being on github? One of the nice things is that you can locally edit github wiki. It can be forked and merged and all that good stuff.

I would think that that would make your job a hell of a lot easier.

[enetheru]

I've played with both wiki's; github wiki is weird, doesn't format things correctly. is unpredictable.
Ive played with lots of wiki's in my time, and mediawiki is by far the best in terms of predictability of editing, features, etc.

Theme's are meh compared to security. not that i have any weight but i support updating and sorting out themes later.

[Forboding Angel]

I've played with both wiki's; github wiki is weird, doesn't format things correctly. is unpredictable.

I haven't found it to be at all out of the ordinary, and if you look at the evo wiki you can tell that we have done a decent bit with it.

That said, Dokuwiki beats the socks off of any wiki I have used to date. Editing things in doku are a breeze. I also appreciate the fact that it is flat file as well.

[Silentwings]

I'm for mediawiki too, imo a big plus of updating would be syntax highlighting. If there was a way to migrate individual forum posts directly to wiki articles, that would also be fantastic. I don't think we should worry much about security for the wiki, as long as we keep a reliable backup.

I am not so concerned about the change to the forum layout and it being gradually tweaked, but I would be worried about changing the layout of the wiki. So can it be trialled first? I honestly couldn't care less about colour-button-whatever-wrangling and the philosophy of placing avatars, but the wiki is a much used source of technical info and we should care a lot that its stays accessible and cleanly presented.

I need more power.

Yes, iirc you can only delete your own post for as long as it is the most recent post on a particular thread.

[FLOZi]

I'm for mediawiki too, imo a big plus of updating would be syntax highlighting. If there was a way to migrate individual forum posts directly to wiki articles, that would also be fantastic. I don't think we should worry much about security for the wiki, as long as we keep a reliable backup.

I am not so concerned about the change to the forum layout and it being gradually tweaked, but I would be worried about changing the layout of the wiki. So can it be trialled first? I honestly couldn't care less about colour-button-whatever-wrangling and the philosophy of placing avatars, but the wiki is a much used source of technical info and we should care a lot that its stays accessible and cleanly presented.

I need more power.

Yes, iirc you can only delete your own post for as long as it is the most recent post on a particular thread.

Agree with this in its entirety. Well said Silentwings.

[gajop]

Regarding the wiki, this is all still valid: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=31760&p=562569

[Forboding Angel]

Honestly my main beef with mediawiki is the idiotic way it handles files/uploads. The editor is pretty gawdawful too. But whatever works.

[Silentwings]

I find the wiki a bit odd in that respect too - imo this is the main obstacle that means forum posts are still better documentation as for some things.