Borderlands 2

[Zydox]

Anyone else playing this lovely game?
If so, anyone in the EU with a HS up for some co-op gameplay?

[AF]

yay

[zwzsg]

For some reasons the Borderlands 2 discussion took place in the Torchlight 2 thread: http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28744

[KaiserJ]

played a bunch of it on hamachi before fifa12 came out; it's good fun

[Rumpelstiltskin]

We have been playing it on the spring mumble server a lot...
This game sux with randoms.

[smoth]

I got it just to look at guns and I am still playing it. So apparently I really like it.

[SwiftSpear]

I didn't like Borderlands too much, and they didn't change the things that bothered me about #1. I like that Borderlands exists, I like that there is a popular mainstream AAA game that has procedurally generated content as it's main selling point... It's just not the style of gameplay I find fun though.

I like shooters to be tactical, very fast paced, and to require intelligence and skill... Borderlands is too much "point crosshair at guy and hold down mouse button till he's dead, rinse, repeat".

The sniper rifles behave how I wish the automatic rifles behaved, and the rest of the guns are kind of silly to me.

So I hope everyone likes it, but Gearbox just decided they weren't making a game for my demographic this time, and I'm perfectly fine with that :)

[Zydox]

I just started playing the Mecromancer class yesterday, seems a bit weird... but the deathtrap is quite nice :)

[smoth]

I like shooters to be tactical, very fast paced, and to require intelligence and skill... Borderlands is too much "point crosshair at guy and hold down mouse button till he's dead, rinse, repeat".

At high level chucking tediore weapons to burst down badasses with head shots from your chucked weapons becomes necessary for survival. I dunno, maybe you are a better gamer than I but I found I had to move a lot to survive many of the fights. I tend to use sniper(dahl/maliwan/jacobs ), assault rifle(any), shotty(tiedor/jacobs), rockets(Maliwan, torge). The companies change the guns greatly and really allows me to get the tap shot(when I can find a nice jacobs) I love.

What are you looking for in terms of tactical? something like stalker or arma? I generally sneak around and head shot with my guns as much as I can.

The sniper rifles behave how I wish the automatic rifles behaved, and the rest of the guns are kind of silly to me.

How so? and how should sniper rifles be?

Not a defensive inquiry just interested in a diferent perspective.

[SwiftSpear]

Stalker is pretty close to my ideal. At the ranges most conflicts occur in Borderlands sniper rifles are kind of silly. In BL snipers are more headshot challenges than they are resembling of anything in more realistic tactical combat. Granted this is true of most games these days... but I'm not a giant fan of any of mainstream gaming's shoot em ups.

Arma is actually a lot of fun as well, although I don't expect them to go quite that far in the direction of shooting at pixels from a mile away. I just never really feel pinned down in borderlands. I never feel the need to flank, and most of the time it's not really possible anyways because the maps are often effectively hallways you're stuck in. It's the silly things like the guy with no shirt on taking 3 shots from a shotgun that can fell robots because he's "higher level"

[Rumpelstiltskin]

snipers are problematic anyway..
I mean they are the perfect gun in a shooting game where you have wide open spaces...
You'd either have to limit the open space in levels or make sniper bullets real hard to find.
Also if the game had awesome snipers pf ots own sniping you how are you suppose to deal with it? Sniping wars? Woopdi fucken doo...

[smoth]

yeah that was a problem in crysis..

join game.

get sniped from a mile a way from a guy you cannot see.

leave server.

I would not like borderlands like stalker, real is dull to me. I don't like hiking half a mile to die by some dude I never see.

[SwiftSpear]

snipers are problematic anyway..
I mean they are the perfect gun in a shooting game where you have wide open spaces...
You'd either have to limit the open space in levels or make sniper bullets real hard to find.
Also if the game had awesome snipers pf ots own sniping you how are you suppose to deal with it? Sniping wars? Woopdi fucken doo...

This is strictly because of the rediculous assertion that shooting games like to make that anything that does not have a scope basically can only hurt you as much as a bee sting, and it might as well be firing bees for the amount bullets tend to spray around.

In the real world, if you get hit by an AK47 bullet at ranges of less than 500 meters you're gonna be having a really really bad time. You might not be dead, but you won't be wanting to fight too much any more. At that range the round will still punch through any military standard issue bullet proof vest... and honestly, a hit to the arm or leg would probably be more than enough to suck the fight out of someone. Those rounds will break the bone near the impact site from pure kinetic shock in the nearby area. You don't need to be hit in the skeleton. Obviously organs fair even worse.

Additionally, at those ranges a good shooter can still basically thread a needle with a gun in good condition. A sniper scope isn't even really needed. That being said, it's not uncommon for a standard AK to be mounted with a sniper scope, and it's still a pretty effective sniper rifle.

In the real world the advantage of sniper rifles is that they are more able to punch through armors, and they are effective at ranges greater than 500 meters. That's pretty silly to video games. At 500 meters a human sized target is like 2 pixels at 480p. Arma makes no apologies for these types of realities, and more often than not, it comes down to shooting at targets, and being hit by targets that you can't even see in that game when you compound the fact they are generally laying prone and have some cover. That's actually very realistic... it's just arguably not fun.

In video games sniper rifles tend to be easier to sight up (because sensitivity becomes micro movements when looking down scope), they are given absurd degree's of power over their standard rifle brethren, and the difficulties and dangers of actually using a rifle scope are usually VERY VERY glossed over. It takes a lot longer to use a glass tube scope properly than it does to line up iron sights in real life on a gun starting at the hip position. All these advantages exist in games to make a weapon type feasible that wouldn't ever really be used at the ranges that video game combat takes place. This is largely because sniper rifles are so popular in pop culture.

They don't have to be the ideal weapon for any game with maps that aren't designed like an ant hill. Developers have chosen to balance things in a way that makes them viable in those situations, and that's why they seem overpowered in games when things open up more.

Sniper rifles are actually hard to use, they require fairly significant time to set up properly to make a shot, and in any non-long range scenario they're a clear liability to be carrying. The romanticism of the sniper makes them essential to include in games, and elaborate dances are done by game designers to fit them into places they don't belong in real life.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

The fact is that sniper rifles are made for long ranges...
Meaning if we want to be realistic about it, open maps in a game with sniper rifles will be, and should be, dominated by sniper rifles....
Make the player have to go prone with certain ones to fire them and make sniper rifles not have crosshairs when you are not using the scope but still, on open maps they will be OP.
The fact you'll make the regular rifles deal more damage will not matter cause the player carrying one will already be lying dead next to it, from a headshot...

All the different solutions you might come up with to integrate snipers in a more sophisticated way will bring you closer to a simulation game like ARMA, which will always be on the sidelines of games like COD and the battlefield series.
Personally I don't consider driving a jeep for 5 minutes than running around another 5 to get to where the fighting is and than dying immediately, fun gameplay.

I do agree that in some FPS games there should be no snipers.

If someone wants a nice sniping game he should try the sniper elite series.

[KDR_11k]

No, very few games actually have maps with open spaces spanning more than 500 meters, most are fairly enclosed with maybe 100-200 meters maximum combat range. So ranges where assault rifles dominate. Then silly players insist on non-sniper rifles being unable to one shot people while gun physics are so damn simplified that it's just "click to kill" so sniper rifles are basically high powered laser cannons.

WW2 had many wide open areas and yet armies didn't issue everybody with a sniper rifle, in fact they were happy when they developed guns that went away from the single aimed shot to a more spray-and-pray method. WW1 was so damn bloody because of the development of more dakka.

It's the silly things like the guy with no shirt on taking 3 shots from a shotgun that can fell robots because he's "higher level"

Yeah, that's so silly. That shotgun shoots homing acid rockets, bare chests should stand no chance!

[AF]

I'm just shocked at the sheer quantity of suicidal 'midgets' relative to the population at large, was Pandora some dream escape from Societies predjudice for the vertically challenged that went horribly wrong?

[KDR_11k]

Well, there's those New-U Stations everywhere, maybe the midgets just respawn there. Also there's like three women on the damn planet so it's no surprise the bandits have gone mad.