Imperial Winter - where things stand, and how you can help.

[SirArtturi]

At this point I think there are two options:

1. Do not release any files because of fear someone might fork it, this results in the game never going to be released, wasting all their work, because obviously the development team isn't going to finish it without help. Their computers can't even run spring.

2. Release it and allow others to help with finishing it, so at least people will play it.

To be very honest, you should be happy if people want to fork it. The goal of a game is to get people playing. Why waste all the work you did on it by dropping it because you think releasing the files *might* mean someone will fork it?

Amen!

[AF]

Developers capable of forking projects here usually do one of two things. Collaborate, or have the urge to start a whole new unrelated project of their own from scratch.

The only project that has had 'forks' as such, are AA/BA/XTA

[scifi]

what is going on here, just let them decide, its theyr project.

I know we all want a flag mod/game, but pls dont rush it.

[smoth]

I know we all want a flag mod/game, but pls dont rush it.

s44 says hi.

[scifi]

I know we all want a flag mod/game, but pls dont rush it.

s44 says hi.

hm and??, i didnt say s44 was bad, or not worth it, it just seams that some people are overreacting, its theyr work, theyr time spent, ofc i wanted it to come out, even if it was an alpha, or just a svn to contribute some stuff.

but its theyr descision rly.

[smoth]

"They" no

[PicassoCT]

Remember Hoth, if we cut it open and use the diggestion tract to warm ourselves, we might survive the freezing cold

[phas]

fair enuff' but...

"open source" does not mean you can fork the project all you want. It only means the source is open and the GPL clearly states that art assets are not covered by the GPL. I'll not turn this into a GPL argument but you can search the forum if you want to see the reasons behind my statement.

Well, first of all, "open source" doesn't means that the source is "GPL", it means that the source is released under an "open source licence" that can be GPL or LGPL, or BSD or MIT or Apache or one of the gazilion of os licence in the world.

Second, yeah, you are right, from a legal point of view one can say that his project is Open Source, release the code under GPL and the data (say, 3d models) on another restrictive licence. From some project this actually makes sense, for others is just a mean way to circumvent de facto a GPL licence that maybe you are enforced to use because you are statically linking some gpl stuff or to say "hey, look, my project is open source, help me" but negating the basical freedom that an open source project should give to the community.

Don't mistake, i'm not a Stallman's free software crusade zealot, but i think that you can make open source projects or closed source projects. IW claim to be an open source project, but after years of "development" no one can access to the code. I don't care if this is legally ok because since he didn't release binary either he can do that, it's bullshit, it's making fun of people and claiming things that are not true.

[abma]

@Warlord Zsinj:

what problems do you have with spring/graphics? infolog.txt helps maybe...

and please, make the svn public. this will end many discussions. also don't fear forks, most people are to lazy to maintain it.

[phas]

if there were people that would fork iw, then they would just fork s44 and make a star wars game from it just for the sake of say "in your face" to warlord

[luckywaldo7]

Probably the most valuable part of IW is the art assests, i.e. models, textures, and animations. That is what they are worried about people stealing.

So it isn't something you can "just fork" from S44.

[abma]

Probably the most valuable part of IW is the art assests, i.e. models, textures, and animations. That is what they are worried about people stealing.

if they worry about that, they never can make a release...

[momfreeek]

just for the sake of say "in your face" to warlord

I'm pretty sure he's not interested in this sort of behaviour. Perhaps go back and read Warlords posts.

He asked for some specific help to do what you're all urging him to do.

His attempt to get-shit-done has been hijacked.

[phas]

Probably the most valuable part of IW is the art assests, i.e. models, textures, and animations. That is what they are worried about people stealing.

So it isn't something you can "just fork" from S44.

forking a project is to steal it? there's copyright for that. if he choose a restrictive licence and people "steal" it, he can sue them.

if he choose an open licence and someone fork the project, people are not "stealing" are legitimately using a feature that Warlord or the people that did the art freely choose.

[momfreeek]

I think you are misunderstanding the situation. There is one banner on a publicly accessible internet page that says "open-source". I presume the intention is to release the game and the source at the same time (again, go back and read warlord's posts). Fairly normal practice.

So its not open source yet. Just one banner thats been developed in good-faith for the release.

warlord was trying to get a release done which would fix all your concerns.

he was using this thread to coordinate (before the 3 pages of drama). perhaps a mod should split this thread?

[AF]

That's a load of nonsense, opensource projects don't need open wide development practices to be opensource.

[hrmph]

This is speculation of course, but I think the "open source real time strategy" on the IW page was just a nod to spring, nothing more.

I was wondering if I took the time to make an archive which I personally considered fit for a beta (once im done with BA7.60 this weekend) would you consider it? (I wouldn't release or share without permission and I'm not interested in changing unit balance as I've only ever actually played one online beta game but there's some good quick wins lookandfeel wise I believe I'd like to help with)

This is the most promising thing suggested in this thread, imo.

[SirArtturi]

This is speculation of course, but I think the "open source real time strategy" on the IW page was just a nod to spring, nothing more.

whether true or false, the fact is that it's misleading - though understandable marketing trick.

All the marketing on the other hand has raised false hopes about game getting actually released sometime. Now I'm afraid it's going to die. It's already getting old. It cant keep up with the pace of engine development and the gap keeps expanding until the things start running again.

[momfreeek]

That's a load of nonsense, opensource projects don't need open wide development practices to be opensource.

I think u misread. I was talking about the freedom of the source code.

I got the impression its intended to be open (although not yet):

I guess given the likelihood that in the next few months I'm not going to have the time to pull out a release, perhaps some sort of unofficial SVN type release may be worthwhile, at the very least so that people can use and learn from the code (though I'd imagine it is all largely outdated by now).

Nothing disingenuous

If I could get it to the point where people could play each other as they were towards the end of the beta then I would be happy to release that as some sort of demo. Honestly in the time you've all spent bawwing at me I reckon half the work could have been completed.

[CarRepairer]

Nvm