League of Legends

[Valheru]

no lol

it would have been better if he'd just gone afk and we'd had a shot at 4v5, impossible to 4v5 against a team that fed off some 0/12/0 alistar. surrendered at 20..

[Gota]

Yeah true.... unless one of you can also get fed

[Regret]

Do you even own gragas?

Excellent argument! I like your logic and valid points to further your case!

I play nid too, completely diffeereent cases.

Magic damage caster, good AP scaling on abilities, low cooldown dash, long range skill shot, strong close combat presence and a sustain ability.

Who am I talking about?

nidalee has no utility at all that does not require AP/ad.

And neither of them have stun, I can throw blank statements without any contribution to my point too. I won't debate with you further, I wanted to help you play better, that time has passed.

[Gota]

Nidalee rox but such a hard champ to master.

[TheMightyOne]

The last time I played gragas was when the Locket Gragas was FOTM. People played him tanky. Locket, SV, Veil, randuins etc. he was nearly unkillible due to his passive + locket (unique passive: heals you and allies in the vicinity when you use an ability) + SV + his dash. and people owned with him.

Locket is gone but he is still pretty good imo. AS debuff, AoE slow, great initiation/reset on Ult and decent dmg even if you dont build AP.

[Coresair]

You think nidalee is strong in sustained melee fights? Her burst requires AP to be burst, her melee damage is terrible without ad/AP.....her melee form is really best at chasing and finishing people off as her cougar q scales with the amount of missing HP a ttarget has. In human form she can heal and buff the attack speed of an ally and reduce the armor/Mr of enemies. Both offensive utilities. Nidalee is literally useless without Ap.....your comparing this to a champion with a strong initiate, two aoe debuffs and a 'roid that allows him to smash some faces without damage items. Again I play both champions you used as your examples.....your just wrong with that comparison.....

[Coresair]

Jungle gragas has BRUTAL ganks after level 6. Gragas is on par with Alistar in terms of.jungle speed, so mediocre. He also gets very low early on making him risky..... I just think his early jungle is too bad to justify wasting his awesome laning abilities....

.....So can anyone else provide some useful advice on that build?

[TheMightyOne]

Nidalee is literally useless without Ap.....your comparing this to a champion with a strong initiate, two aoe debuffs and a 'roid that allows him to smash some faces without damage items.

coresair has a point.

[KaiserJ]

taking a sabbatical from this for a while

why don't we have FPS DotA yet

[smoth]

taking a sabbatical from this for a while

why don't we have Engines of war yet

Because Sean went Mia.

[Gota]

ahh had a great game..
all allies picked melee champs...
both side lanes started feeding off tha bat...I was forced to play vs anivia cause we had abolutely no ranged chars and nobody that can go mid but me, teemo...

So a Teemo versus anivia matchup(superhard for teemo) in mid and both side lanes feeding like crazy...
Alistar,malphite,nocturne, nasus...they got fucked in all holes...

Luckily anivia wasnt very good(she took clarity and pushed the lane and her mana jsut didnt end and there was nobody to come and gank her since side lanes were too busy feeding the enemy) and I somehow managed to out-farm her by like 50 cs but side lanes kept dying and dying...and than we had absolutely no chance in team fights.
Super frustrating game.
and why the fuck wasnt nocturne in jungle!!!! I raged so much inside but i knew after 10 minutes game was already over...

I guess I had it coming since my last ranked game before this one was super easy.

Also one of the worst alistars iv seen in a while...He took clarity!!! and had no flash...
Hed use his ulti not when he got focused but every time he SUSPECTED a team fight was about to start...so bad...

[Valheru]

Anivia mid is a weak early game, especially against teemo. You grab your boots like usual and its impossible to be hit by her flash frost. Without flash frost she has no damage, and its easy for you to simply Q her, even autoattack her, just focus on dodging the pathetically slow travelling flash frost.

At 6 she has to go B to get mana regen if she wants to harrass you, so you get a nice cs boost while she is gone.

Anivia is a massive carry, and is almost impossible to kill early game, but you'll take 0 damage from her if you simply focus. Free cs for 6 levels.

[Gota]

I don't usually take boots.I take doran's blade with teemo in most cases(why would you grab boots at start with teemo?).
I think a good anivia will have an easy time to farm against teemo while denying him here and there with her long range abilities(not to mention be very good in a ganking situation).
I never played her personally but i think so.
I didnt take much damage from her and outfarmed her but like i said she was a noob anivia.
If it was some other char that player was playing, like a shorter ranged AD char i think id get a few kills in.

[Valheru]

Well when the other team has an anivia/caitlyn and you're going mid, take boots. Its an easy initial counter-build that wont affect your gameplay too much. You can always B and grab the dorans if you really want it.

Remember also that if youre a squishy char and your opponent doesnt have massive nuking ability, taking the health pots gives you a LOT more health in total than the dorans. 3 hp pots gives you 600, the dorans gives you 100 + a little health regen from 3% lifesteal.

Furthermore, since anivia has no harrass earlygame, I'd suggest taking boots + ward + pot, using the ward to kill their jungler at red, or if they dont have a jungler, save it till anivia goes B, then stick it at her blue buff. Most competent anivia's will head B, grab a catalyst + tear/boots, head over to blue and take it, then get back to mid to farm the living shit out of the creeps. Take advantage of her mana problems!

And i think as teemo you grab the boots so you can Q, fire an auto attack, then run away before taking damage, and let your poisons deal some damage.

[Gota]

Well, i disagree...
First of all teemo has his speedup ability, you dont need boots to do the blind, autoattack than run maneuver...
Dorans blade is probably the most cost effective item for a ranged ad char at start.
It gives you 100 health 3% life steal and 10 damage...
I even take it on AP kogmaw to ease the farming.
Not to mention that dorans gives you "amazing" amounts of hp throughout the game.

[TheMightyOne]

Well when the other team has an anivia/caitlyn and you're going mid, take boots. Its an easy initial counter-build that wont affect your gameplay too much. You can always B and grab the dorans if you really want it.

This.

You forgot one point though, Teemo is such a great harasser in the laning phase with his Q and E, boots let you get this one extra shot before you have to turn around.

Boots are the most important item vs. anivia early game.

I take Boots + 3 pots on almost ALL ranged carries if i'm going solo.

@Gota
Also why say "NO!" ? Why not "Hmm... I don't really like it but I'll try it and tell you what I think about it"?

[Gota]

Im not sure how many times any of you played teemo but iv played him shitloads and i play only him in ranked and i tried all sorts of starts and builds with him.
Im not saying no, i dont want to try im saying i tried it and i disagree about its efficiency versus dorans blade.

Also TMO get off my case, i have no desire to keep arguing with you about anything since your initial standpoint is always that you know best.
I dont take advice from such people since their advice is usually bad.
If there was someone here who played teemo a lot in ranked and did great with him than id gladly hear what he has to say atm I feel condifent aarguing my case since it seems to me iv played teemo at least as much as anyone here.

Maybe you should think, TMO, why you take boots on all ranged carries when you go solo.
Maybe because you dont feel confident about your estimation of your opponent's stranghts, ability timings and cooldowns and minion counts thus you feel safer knowing you can correct those mistakes in judgment by running faster or having pots to heal up.

About the going off and placing wards early game as mid solo, i disagree with this notion since it is very risky in the sense that you know absolutely nothing of the player you are playing against.
there might be more point to doing it when the enemy has a jungler and you dont but in that case its still super risky.

It is not the mid carry's job to sacrifice $ xp and time to try and sabotage the enemy jungler.
IMO the best thing as mid, unless your really dominating the lane, is to farm farm farm so youll be able to carry easier in case your allies feed or play not so well.

Sure if you easily outfarm your lane or get first blood and than dominate the lane you can do all sorts of stuff from taking jungle to ganking lanes but thats not the case many times.

[TheMightyOne]

I dont take advice from such people since their advice is usually bad.

Would you be so kind and point out a bad advice from me?

[Gota]

I dont take advice from such people since their advice is usually bad.

Would you be so kind and point out a bad advice from me?

Just do not argue with me.
I have no interest in what you say nor the manner in which you present yourself.
Just dont reply to my posts and i will not reply to yours, that should be easy enough and will prevent derailing and flaming.

[TheMightyOne]

I dont take advice from such people since their advice is usually bad.

Would you be so kind and point out a bad advice from me?

Just do not argue with me.
I have no interest in what you say nor the manner in which you present yourself.
Just dont reply to my posts and i will not reply to yours, that should be easy enough and will prevent derailing and flaming.