Farewell

[Gota]

if in contrary, iran would use the bomb first, it could be assured with 100% security to be wiped out, whether by a-bombs or classically, by israel or basically all the whole west.
in any way, it seems totally unthinkable that iran would get aggressive, nukularly or "normally". and looking at the way you argument there, justifying what the US did, i bet you'd not see anything wrong in starting aggressions against iran (to prevent their aggressions only, of course. even though it is clear, that it would make absolutely no sense for them).

Iran doesn't have to use its nuclear weapon directly.
It can use Hezbollah.
Another point is just the deterrent it poses.
For example.
Hezbollah start shooting at Israel Iran declares it will nuke Israel if Israel retaliates to Hezbollah or some other similar scenario where Iran uses its power to slow erode Israel's ability to resist any attack.

If you don't agree with my opinions about the US you are welcome to counter it instead of again indirectly blaming me for being unfair.
If you are not able to counter my arguments and reasoning than stop hinting things about me.

I dont know what Israel's top military and government heads know but i sure hope they have some way of dealing with this bullshit.
having a nuclear iran with its current government is a very dangerous reality for Israel.

If what we simple people know about the situation is not far from what the guys with all the intel know,than no,i would not see bombing all nuclear technology related structures and infrustructe in Iran a bad move or morally wrong.

I dont know if your aware of it but Israel has done it before.

even if i wasn't living in Israel there would still be many good arguments as to why Iran should not have nuclear weapons.

[Sleksa]

Iran doesn't have to use its nuclear weapon directly.
It can use Hezbollah.

except a nuke going off there would kill off other muslims too, destroy locations important for all 3 religions (jews christians and muslims) , severe health and enviroimental effects. Whoever pulls the trigger will be facing total annihilation from every possible direction (west, other arabic nations, possibly even russia)

Another point is just the deterrent it poses.
For example.
Hezbollah start shooting at Israel Iran declares it will nuke Israel if Israel retaliates to Hezbollah or some other similar scenario where Iran uses its power to slow erode Israel's ability to resist any attack.

Think about it from iran's point of view, they've been in us embargo for years, the whole west keeps pressuring them, they have oil and they know west wants it, us/israeli rhetoric about surgical strikes on iran are hardly friendly. A nuke would make the ultimate deterrent against any invasion or attack, let alone the political boost ahmejinedad would gain from it, i see no reason from iran point of view NOT to get nukes

I dont know what Israel's top military and government heads know but i sure hope they have some way of dealing with this bullshit.
having a nuclear iran with its current government is a very dangerous reality for Israel.

propably yes, but you have to wonder if it is the right time to resort in the military to handle a delicate timebomb situation ~_~

If what we simple people know about the situation is not far from what the guys with all the intel know,than no,i would not see bombing all nuclear technology related structures and infrustructe in Iran a bad move or morally wrong.

well israel doesnt seem to think there's any wrong in pushing the palestinian people around however they want, or mossad going around killing people around the world, or fully attacking other countries(lebanon) or using banned weaponry (cluster munition white phosporous, what else dont we know about?), attacking some buildings in iran is hardly atrocious compared to these

I dont know if your aware of it but Israel has done it before.

yeah guess you guys want a best of 3 or best of 5 match then?

[JohannesH]

Ofc it's not a good thing when more and more countries get nukes, but Israel already having nuke does take a lot of credibility from their opposition to others getting them, especially when they never declared that they have them

[Sleksa]

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 270674227/

Check out what the newer S300 variants are capable of:
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Grumble-Gargoyle.html

Btw I can more than recommend http://www.ausairpower.net

The shipment of those AA systems has been postponed indefinitely for now, unless there has been some very recent changes.

it's a odd situation, russia is denying it has delivered s300 to iran(complying with the arms embargo), but iran is saying that they have recieved some initial units(true? rhetoric?), they also say that they have bought some off from other places (east-europe?)


but even without the s300, the army posesses hundreds of other aa units, decent radar and warning systems, i wouldnt want to be the pilot trying to outmaneuver everything iran has stationed around those places

[Gota]

Iran doesn't have to use its nuclear weapon directly.
It can use Hezbollah.

except a nuke going off there would kill off other muslims too, destroy locations important for all 3 religions (jews christians and muslims) , severe health and enviroimental effects. Whoever pulls the trigger will be facing total annihilation from every possible direction (west, other arabic nations, possibly even russia)

Another point is just the deterrent it poses.
For example.
Hezbollah start shooting at Israel Iran declares it will nuke Israel if Israel retaliates to Hezbollah or some other similar scenario where Iran uses its power to slow erode Israel's ability to resist any attack.

Think about it from iran's point of view, they've been in us embargo for years, the whole west keeps pressuring them, they have oil and they know west wants it, us/israeli rhetoric about surgical strikes on iran are hardly friendly. A nuke would make the ultimate deterrent against any invasion or attack, let alone the political boost ahmejinedad would gain from it, i see no reason from iran point of view NOT to get nukes

I dont know what Israel's top military and government heads know but i sure hope they have some way of dealing with this bullshit.
having a nuclear iran with its current government is a very dangerous reality for Israel.

propably yes, but you have to wonder if it is the right time to resort in the military to handle a delicate timebomb situation ~_~

If what we simple people know about the situation is not far from what the guys with all the intel know,than no,i would not see bombing all nuclear technology related structures and infrustructe in Iran a bad move or morally wrong.

well israel doesnt seem to think there's any wrong in pushing the palestinian people around however they want, or mossad going around killing people around the world, or fully attacking other countries(lebanon) or using banned weaponry (cluster munition white phosporous, what else dont we know about?), attacking some buildings in iran is hardly atrocious compared to these

I dont know if your aware of it but Israel has done it before.

yeah guess you guys want a best of 3 or best of 5 match then?

Ah i hate multiple quotes..

First of all it doesnt have to be a nuclear bomb jsut a dirty one would do.
Second of all they have no problem with killing muslims(you think they care about muslims?) they have done it many times,hell you think there were no muslims in WTC or in the tens of buses that were blown up in israel?
How about when you send rockets you can never know if they hit jews or muslims..
same thing with these "flotillas" if they really cared about muslims they would send aid to african countries where muslim kids are actually starving to death.nobody is starving to death in the gaza strip.
all they care about is the ongoing fight and scoring points versus Israel in whatever way possible.

Now Iran has been in embargo by the US because of the hijacking of us citizens right after the revoluton during jimmy carters presidency,after that crazy incident us and IRan parted ways,initially the US didnt want to be in bad relations with iran,even post revolution Iran.

Also so what if there is an embargo on iran by the US?how does that somehow mean they suddenly need to get nuclear weapons?
Israeli rethotic about surgical strikes only came after many threats of ahmedinadjad to wipe out israel not that Israle didnt know how was standing behind hezbullah and syria..so dont make it into the us/Israel being somehow provocative towards the peaceful iran..seriously..

Your one sided arguemtns have always annoyed me and tbh i dont see why you keep bothering throwing these things at me ...
I know that you made up your mind and i know roughly what your opinion is even though i personally think its based more or less on scavenged bits of information.

All these comments about the palestinians hold absolutely no relevance to this discussion and its a gigantic area that im not gonna go into in this thread.

second of all all special agencies work in roughly the same way so im not even gonna comment on that part any more.
Invasion into lebanon was not initiated by Israel plus it is they who are constantly threatening to destory Israel,Israel has absolutely no desire to invade and hold Lebanon or we would have.
The war was completely by their order and will.
You should provide some sources for your white phosperous claim.
As far as i remmeber thouse were invaldi accusations since it was indeed used but in accordance to international law for ilumination or smoke.
If Israel really would have used phosphorous to bomb targets believe me there would be no way of denying it.
I never looked into the other things.

[bobthedinosaur]

Weren't you just arguing against militant religious forces?

[hoijui]

Iran doesn't have to use its nuclear weapon directly.
It can use Hezbollah.
Another point is just the deterrent it poses.
For example.
Hezbollah start shooting at Israel Iran declares it will nuke Israel if Israel retaliates to Hezbollah or some other similar scenario where Iran uses its power to slow erode Israel's ability to resist any attack.

That could theoretically make sense in a world where neither israel, nor any other western country would have the bomb. Whether iran nukes israel, or some 10 people somewhere in israel get accidentally radiated in a lab accident, iran is gonna get insta-nuked, cause it musta been an iran fed hezbollah dirty attack.
again, in any way, it makes no sense for iran to start aggression. you act as if israel had the short end of the stick, which is just hillarious, as it will still have way the longer one if iran has the bomb, which is kind of a requirement to start war.
do you really think that iranian leaders are so stupid that they will think "ahh, we have the bomb, we are invincible! we gonna attack israel now!"?

[SpikedHelmet]

OHGOD, IRAN NOW HAVE A LOW MAINTENANCE COST CHEAPLY RENEWABLE LOW-POLLUTION ENERGY SOURCE?!? WE CAN'T HAVE THIS.

Gota is typical fanatic zionist, sadly stereotypical of the average Israeli. For this reason I wouldn't really mind if Israel got nuked, but it'd have to be a multiple strike in at least the top 5 cities, or else it'll just end up killing a couple hundred thousand and turning the rest into murderous religious zealots who will stain the dirt of the middle east red with muslim blood... wait, they kind of already do that don't they?

Sadly I do not think Iran is capable of doing so due to the fact that they would immediately be annihilated. Hopefully one day when the US isn't willing or able to come to Israel's rescue, they'll get what they deserve.

[Gota]

OHGOD, IRAN NOW HAVE A LOW MAINTENANCE COST CHEAPLY RENEWABLE LOW-POLLUTION ENERGY SOURCE?!? WE CAN'T HAVE THIS.

Gota is typical fanatic zionist, sadly stereotypical of the average Israeli. For this reason I wouldn't really mind if Israel got nuked, but it'd have to be a multiple strike in at least the top 5 cities, or else it'll just end up killing a couple hundred thousand and turning the rest into murderous religious zealots who will stain the dirt of the middle east red with muslim blood... wait, they kind of already do that don't they?

Sadly I do not think Iran is capable of doing so due to the fact that they would immediately be annihilated. Hopefully one day when the US isn't willing or able to come to Israel's rescue, they'll get what they deserve.

Heh and im the fanatic?listen to yourself..
Of course im a Zionist,im a Zionist by definition because i live in Israel and i want it to keep existing.
I bet you dont even know what zionism is do you..

I like how many intelligent liberal people(cant really call you that based on your post cause your not even attempting to present any facts or try to be objective,your just shouting out slogans) criticise probably the last nationalistic ideology in the west(which was never totalitarian or expansionist and always democratic) while apparently have absolutely no problem with the extreme nationalism, (rooted)prejudice and hate and imperialistic desires expressed in the countries surrounding Israel.

If Israelis had your mindset there would be no Israel,instead youd have a muslim led country with shariah law.
Maybe if you wouldnt have lost your own country's identity you wouldnt feel such hate towards those that haven't lost their own

Israel wouldn't have any problems with iran nuclear plant if it didnt constantly threatened to destroy Israel or operate indirectly to achieve this goal.
In fact during the Iraq-Iran war Israel helped Iran...
If you go on any Israeli news website and look in the comments if its an article about irani demonstration you'd see the comments are very in favor of the secular movement.

I wonder how would you feel if a neighboring country was a dictatorship threatening to annihilate your country and aiding groups actively working to achieve this and than they would get nuclear material.

edited:
Im just glad(or hopefull) people with your opinion dont represent where it is your from.
If everyone here were as hateful as youv presented yourself to be we'd nuke the entire area ages ago.

[scifi]

I only say this, Religion and politics mixed = MESS

You just forget that just the fact israel exists as a country iran wants to use everything it represents, (iran doesnt need israel to be wiped out of the map), it just needs israel to continue to defend itself, while iran takes over sirya and lebanon politicaly. Its a Political war, to control the adjacent areas.

Do you think that iran targets israel cause of its actions LOL no. Iran targets israel cause its a perfect road to iran domination of the area.

Divide and conquer, foreign threat is the best thing to unite people of the same culture.

And one more thing saudi arabia doesnt like Iran, they are both having theyr own secret wars, just look at how palestine is divided in 2 political parties.

[maackey]

I try to stay away from threads like these, mainly because I couldn't care less about the huge walls of text and the pointless political or religious arguments/discussions that only serve to further entrench stubbornness and polarization of matters that are not black and white.

Just a reminder to please keep a level head and refrain from personal attacks or general offensive behavior.

[Gouken]

I'm confused... Russia invaded Finland during WW2 ?
Was Finland allied with nazis or something

or is this talking about when the Nazi's invaded Russia, and the Finland people went to help the Russians defend, of course Russia would have a lot more casualties

If anything, this picture is contradicts it's meaning, it shows the Finland people have an awful army and didn't do much during the war

yeah, we allied ourselves with the nazis and went to help russia against the nazis, obviously this resulted in the soviets suffering more casualties, despite the fact that the finns had a awful army and didnt do much during the war(s)

You're either really bad at understanding English or just trolling randomly

[hoijui]

it is called sarcasm.

[Gouken]

then he's doin it wrong

but most likely he didnt understand what I said properly

[Coresair]

ehhh, He is mocking you. It seems clear enough to me....


(Note: Sleksa is from Finland )

[Gouken]

oh I offended him so he makes some kind of fail comeback

[Sleksa]

oh I offended him so he makes some kind of fail comeback

the only thing you offended was your own intelligence

[Machete234]

The only thing you can offend is somebody elses intelligence

[Sleksa]

The only thing you can offend is somebody elses intelligence

Yeah, a nice guy like me could hardly offend others.

I could've replied to his post seriously, but after 2 tries i just found it too demanding. If a person cant read the simplest statistics, how could i assume he'd be able to understand such things as politics or history


edit: were derailing the thread pretty nicely here~~

[SirArtturi]

I could've replied to his post seriously, but after 2 tries i just found it too demanding. If a person cant read the simplest statistics, how could i assume he'd be able to understand such things as politics or history

Lol, I felt very much the same.

edit: were derailing the thread pretty nicely here~~

It's actually funny and interesting how this topic derailed into a discussion of Finnish struggle in winter war - At least partly...