End of nations : the first MMORTS ?

[Vimes]

Soz - pre coffee post after seeing a google alert leading here. I tend to feed off the arrogant replies and leap in. Amazing how folks can deride something so quickly isnt it..

Only 2 posts dealt with game, since everyone else was clearly hung up by the manner of presentation, not the content. The content seems like it may work, but I didn't hear anything really new - except maybe the farmville style home base.

To me the whole game felt like World in Conflict with a farmville backend. And no PvP.

I still retain that the manner of presentation provided is far from unfortunate, its downright disastrous.

Vimes, if you have this on google alerts, maybe you can fill us in with more info?

Edit: Also, the game footage provided (though that's probably subject to change) didn't look better than world in conflict either, and that's a 3 year old game.

Shown content is early alpha still and a lot of compromises have been made to the rts and mmo community. Instanced fighting is more springs style not mine - I have to admit to being dissappointed, preferring the huge real time universe model of mankind or beyond protocol. But I can see the sense in their approach from a business model. Without players MMORTS is RTS and many, including myself, got very bored with fighting ai and all its limitations. I prefer my prey live. IF spring had to pay to use the TA system then a number of compromises would be made no doubt and you would lose the freeloaders REAL quick.

There are a number of good links on the games front page to articles going into more depth and I have yet to do mine, primarily because I wont do the simple chore questions that non strat sites ask based on a press release. Im in discussions with the devs and I am just starting to make notes on areas of contention and innovation that would allow me to form an article. Personally I would prefer to play solid for over amonth minimum before passing a judgement on the core areas of my interest. long term strategy capacity and balance.

But folks - this is Petroglyph - big RTS developers. Some folks dont like them. Many, many do. Big players are moving into the genre now - dont get left behind. I loved Unreal Tournament (GoTY version) but had to move on eventually. I bet when most folks here picked up a RTS they wondered why the turn based bunch still bothered. And those wondered why the table top bunch still bothered. And so on.

Two more points..

The presenter/boss shouldnt matter but sadly does. It does your community no favours to jump in with the shallow end of humanity. Even if he was all of the things mentioned by kids, it wouldnt affect his game design/coding surely? I mean..looking at some of your communities avatar pics I would assume most were upper teens who can code a bit n like to call themselves programmers. As an adult with 5 kids and over 24 years experience in my industry, I would be insulted if a hobbiest assumed the same job title and proceeded to critisise my investment/risk as if I should take them seriously. Take your hobby into business and put it on the line then give yourself a title lol.

And PvP will be the major feature - the PvE will just ferment co-operative play amongst the luddite RTS gamers who are JUST getting used to it. MMORTS has suffered from RTS players bringing in the one against all mentality and acting in a manner no nation/army could - zerging and abuse of shield for intial base etc. Many MMORTS players do try to act more like a general of a nation and not a gang leader on crack not caring about the long term. I see the PvE as a sop to those used to multiplayer instances and single player adventure. This should appeal here as the only real feature I hear esposed on this board is how good the ai/pathing is..

And can spring handle 50+ players with huge assets in one instance, repeated multiple times and constantly online?

Previous posts? you bitched about his make up - and casually insulted the game on a handful of bulletpoints, most of which were wrong. I will take you seriously when you act it (more like the post I quoted)

[Licho]

There were many MMORTS ..
First was shattered galaxy i think.

[Beherith]

Removed some of the heavier trolling.
First impressions count for too much, eh?

[Vimes]

There were many MMORTS ..
First was shattered galaxy i think.

Shattered galaxy was 2001 release and Mankind 1998/99 - though a heavily loved game that is still going and discussed every thread about the genre. Many see EoN as its succussor down to the instancing within a live rts environment etc. Eon is more son of SG than Mankind possibly.

[==Troy==]

The presenter/boss shouldnt matter but sadly does. It does your community no favours to jump in with the shallow end of humanity. Even if he was all of the things mentioned by kids, it wouldnt affect his game design/coding surely? I mean..looking at some of your communities avatar pics I would assume most were upper teens who can code a bit n like to call themselves programmers. As an adult with 5 kids and over 24 years experience in my industry, I would be insulted if a hobbiest assumed the same job title and proceeded to critisise my investment/risk as if I should take them seriously. Take your hobby into business and put it on the line then give yourself a title lol.

Insulting this community and showing that you are not part of it is not going to get you far with getting your point across.

This is a presentation, and as all presentation of all COMMERCIAL (and not hobby) projects MUST have top-notch quality. If I see a poorly done presentation, with the company failing to understand what they need to do to advertise their game well, I would not ever think very positively about the game itself.

I agree, there is little connection between marketing and concept of the game, but we are all used to the companies spending at least 50% of the budget on good and well taught marketer agents.


The game itself is poor graphically and is quite cartoonish. I would at least expect a wheel or two continue to roll when the truck gets destroyed, as it is at this moment, its even worse than WiC.

The concept is nowhere new or groundbreaking either.

[Vimes]

Insulting this community and showing that you are not part of it is not going to get you far with getting your point across.

If a grown up had replied to the OP I would have just watched. The derogatory manner of most of the following posts deserved little else - do they seriously represent your community?

This is a presentation, and as all presentation of all COMMERCIAL (and not hobby) projects MUST have top-notch quality. If I see a poorly done presentation, with the company failing to understand what they need to do to advertise their game well, I would not ever think very positively about the game itself.

Again, this is opinion and not, imo, a valid one. Try to look with open mind not the blinkers you chose to put on yourself when you saw the thread go badly and decided to wade in with more :)

The game itself is poor graphically and is quite cartoonish. I would at least expect a wheel or two continue to roll when the truck gets destroyed, as it is at this moment, its even worse than WiC.

lol - you want bouncing wheel debris - in a alpha mmo? Do you know anything about networking? Im barely coversant with some of the stuff the devs throw at me but thanks for making me feel like an expert. Fluff like that has no place in MMORTS or RTS imo. Thats WoW stuff. Wash your mouth out.

The concept is nowhere new or groundbreaking either.

Nope - but the choice of features in one game experience is, never mind the stuff the alpha and beta teams will add. And again, show me the innovation here... you hang other games by a standard you cant hold yourself.

And now, like my previous post, back to the OP please. Id like to believe you had looked more than glanced but you dont inspire confidence :)

[Vimes]

are folk posting then deleting or is that a mod action? I am getting emails and click the link to find im not allowed to see this board (which I can via a previous mail..)

[==Troy==]

I think your personal attacks and attempts to appear a lot more knowledgeable than you are, will not get you anywhere here, besides attracting a lot more trolls.

Understand the little difference, I am a customer who is looking at this game, I am not a compassionate participant, and neither am I a fanboi as you appear to be. Hence I expect the quality. If you cant show any, and instead you just try to create a buzz on groundless work-in-progress alpha version, which barely makes it up to the games released 5 years ago, then good luck trying.

If you want any positive feedback at all, I recommend you stop trying to dismiss the comments you dont like, and anger everyone with your comments about childishness or lack of knowledge. You can be right or wrong, either way it does not make you look cleverer, or in any way authoritative to listen to.


Edit : had this been an open source project, I would be WOWing and applying to the coding team to help if there was any needed.

[Regret]

are folk posting then deleting or is that a mod action? I am getting emails and click the link to find im not allowed to see this board (which I can via a previous mail..)

The guy with the green name did say he deleted some posts.

Also I like where this is going.

Again, this is opinion and not, imo, a valid one.

[Vimes]

Its not my game and being a fanboi of a alpha im not in would be some achievement - wish I could still get that excited at my age. Your community kicked this off chap, yet you just focus on moi. And thus I reply back. And you haven't changed shit have you really - you cloak a flame on me with superficial comment on a game you still obviously havent looked at or thought about much. Why are you posting tbh?

If, after the thread is modded as your game, you still cant get on track then thats fine. Doesnt reflect on me. And why you would prefer a good looking, pec loaded young man to look at rather than actually listen to one of the creative talents in the industry is beyond me. I could suggest some sites but I would have to use google tbh - so I suggest you goto Playgirl or something more hip.

Just stop making work for your poor mods - I imagine (given my experiences here now and previously) they are already overworked and NOT paid.

[AF]

Vimes, I have yet to see anything to redeem you as a programmer or experience wise. No website, no projects, no screenshots, no employment history, no code, no games.

So don't expect people to react nicely when you call them hobbyists, ridicule their avatars for looking teen like, and boast about 24 years of experience. That's not how it works on the internets.

What is the maximum amount of player in a single game in the latest spring? Surely we can demo a game with more 54 players, video the replay, and trounce the game on youtube?

[==Troy==]

Vimes, you have finally collapsed into direct trolling. If you want to help, and if you want to steer this topic back to the OP's post, you should either entirely stop posting, or at least start continuing the discussion of the OP's content, rather than angrily replying to the comments which you dont like.


Dont feed the troll, ignore him.

@AF he could be Bill Gates, its still not going to change the reaction he gets from most of the members.


Edit: and Vimes, when you speak in "your community" terms, you split yourself from this community, and are assumed to be involved with the OP's link.

If not, then why do you bother at all?

[Vimes]

Vimes, I have yet to see anything to redeem you as a programmer or experience wise. No website, no projects, no screenshots, no employment history, no code, no games.

Again proving how little you folks look. Im no coder - already mentioned that - but I work in construction - surveying, architecture and AutoCAD. The IT industry isnt unique and seems to follow most of the traditional models of buiness - thus I feel I can comment. And going by most of the posters I have been working longer than they have been alive... lol

And re your community. You are so part of it you dont see it - but coming from outside this site (your community) you all sound like fanbois...so where does that get us. The OP seems to have slunk off and ANY post relating directly to the OP was answered on topic..

[edit]
Btw - I have a website lol - I bother only to lure in more prey.

[luckywaldo7]

Yeah we are mostly a community of open-source fanboys, and generally we more highly value creativity that is shared and nurtured over creativity that is locked away and sold.

[AF]

Sadly the correlation between experience and skill is poor at best and cannot be used as justification without invoking logical fallacies.

As I said, dont tell us your great, show us your great. Thats how you earn respect around here.

[JohannesH]

So this is basically like WoW or whatever MMORPG, but you dont have a hero but instead a home base and a bunch of tanks?

sounds horrible...

[Vimes]

There were many MMORTS ..
First was shattered galaxy i think.

Shattered galaxy was 2001 release and Mankind 1998/99 - though a heavily loved game that is still going and discussed every thread about the genre. Many see EoN as its succussor down to the instancing within a live rts environment etc. Eon is more son of SG than Mankind possibly.

We were back on topic thanks to Beherith - then troy started..cmon mods - lets delete and try again..

I think, if you wish to allude to professionalism, that a more mature response to OP should have occured. I know everyone likes to be a star and say something to lol at etc but cmon -you start flaming the game in a not easily public forum? I wasnt just passing - i ignore most alerts as old news or abuse of the keyword strategy - but I know these forums and knew how it would kick off as I clicked the link. Not in response to me mind, I knew the mention of mmorts would have foam flecked abuse immediately. Shame..

[Vimes]

So this is basically like WoW or whatever MMORPG, but you dont have a hero but instead a home base and a bunch of tanks?

sounds horrible...

No - sounds much more like many games of Spring with an over-arching story that each instance affects in real time. And much more. You cannot say the bases dont matter - they are much more strategic with planning than a tactical base to collect local resources in a small, small instance - set alone with no context but a ranking maybe. Deploying a base in traditional RTS is no more than pitching tents. Long term play demands much more thought and resource control, typically in a live environment like BEyond Protocol. I have registered my objection aesthetically with the safe base instance but I have to concede that if the genre is to get anywhere this is a compromise I can live with...maybe. Still way better than making a base just for the moment/instance circumstances, never having to adapt it and failing only to try and learn again - all live. Continued use of the words strategy in relation to spring alone and mmorpg in relation to mmorts will get this response as often.

[luckywaldo7]

Eh, I hate to seem like I'm trying to chip away at your enthusiasm, but after watching a few videos and checking out the website it seems to be a watered-down rts for mmo players, not an mmo for rts players.

On the other hand, I recall thinking that ruse looked like a newb game, but Shift and some others had good things to say about it so I'm going to check it out, I guess I'll wait a bit to pass judgment on this game.

Though they absolutely must implement some PvP.

[Machete234]

I wonder how this will work over a longer time.
When its about world domination or something then there has to be politics, building infrastructure etc.

A little like the total war series that has a round based mode and an action/tactical mode.
But it shouldnt be round based, to build something in your country should take real days. (so you dont have hardcore players playing this 18h a day)

I would make a game so that a faction can win world domination and then you can just restart the whole game.

I must say I didnt watch the whole video, all he said was that it will be a lot more idiot compatible.

Watching it now: fighting against AIs is lame, it should be only real people playing online.
Not several game modes to make everybody happy.