NOTA 1.82

[thelawenforcer]

personally, i find the crabe to be quite shitty (altho better than the sumo, cos its faster, has an AOE attack, same range and cheaper)

In a game vs pinochio, i had 10 dominators kill maybe 30-40 crabes without taking any losses.

the sumos/cans do indeed suck quite alot.

to counter the vashps u need flak really, also, i would have preferred if the kbot aa had got a straight buff, rather than a compromise of dealing lower damage.

also, dont forget that when i do go for the vashp spam, i only have 1 or two land facs, and have like 3+ air facs. if you have early AA you can keep the vashp numbers down, push and win.

I wouldnt want to see core nerfed, infact, id like to see some of their units buffed a bit (t2 units), but arm would need some new units and some pretty serious buffing to be able to compete with that. Also i guess that would perhaps make the transition to t2 remove some of the need for t1 units but im not sure.

[Vergial]

Gotta say, I've been playing (and loving) NOTA since 1.5x. I can't find a single thing wrong with it, I really can't. Then the changelog appears and I find myself thinking "Y'know, if something WAS wrong, that would be how to fix it." Aaaand then I go right back to enjoying NOTA. XD

Now, I'm an ARM loyalist, never play as CORE. It's been that way since I first played TA. So maybe this is coming off as dumb (which I'd agree immediately, NOTA is perfect as-is) but I'd certainly like to see the ARM get an experimental unit like the Core's Flying Fortress. I love using the air units, I love it a lot. And if I could control something big and nasty in the airspace, I'd be a happy camper.

Just a suggestion. I can see SO many reasons why it wouldn't work out, but I can dream, can't I? XD

[==Troy==]

I would actually support that. For a long time those ARM pods were just shitty collection of 5-6 crabes stuffed together into something bigger.

Maybe give them something nice and shiny? Not sure what though, but would be nice to know if there is a chance of that hapenning

[Vergial]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this, but I'm also very confused at the Spacebugs stuff.

I attempt to start a Spacebugs variant game with everyone teamed, as I would imagine to be correct. Next thing I know, game starts, team wins, game's over. In a matter of a second.

What am I doing wrong?

[Thor]

Thanks for the kind words, Vergial.

With spacebugs, click on the add AI button and select spacebug. That will create the spacebug team.

I agree that Arm could use a more interesting experimental unit. Pods are a bit boring as they are now.

[Vergial]

You're welcome, Thor. It's much deserved praise, I rarely see work this good.

Yea, that fixed the Spacebugs problem too. I feel so silly right now. XD

And I was thinking, perhaps an airborne ARM Experimental Unit wouldn't be so unbalanced after all. The ARM DOES have to deal with a CORE Experimental Airborne after all, with nothing more than fighters or interceptors. If anything, that makes the air game already unbalanced if it wasn't for the fact that I tend to have an UNGODLY airforce at the ready. And ARM Experimental, while not necessary, would be awesome. Perhaps a balance in the right direction?

I suddenly wanna discuss this for as long as possible. XD

I do enjoy this mod too much. To influence this development would be farking incredible.

[==Troy==]

Core sky fortress gets owned by interceptors. Arm already has archangel which is basically impossible to kill before it scouts your base.

[Vergial]

I agree with ya, but the Archangel doesn't do anything cool other than spot buildings (which isn't a bad thing). I'd just like to see the ARM with a fighting experimental, just so the ARM has a chance at having badassery in the sky. XD

[==Troy==]

Unnerf the ARM t2 ground attack, or whatever. I find Arm archangel more useful than core fortress.

Black lillies perform better anyway.

[Vergial]

Yes, yes, we already established that an ARM Experimental isn't necessary at all. XD We want it for the shiny effect, those Montros Pods are something I wouldn't mind trading for a possible airborne Experimental, if that should be necessary.

Worth mentioning I've only ever used Montros Pods once. Never went back. XD

[j5mello]

i've always found the Pod wanting as far as experimentals go and I've got a probably complicated idea to make them fill a new niche (an idea I shamelessly stole Red Alert 3).

how about giving it more health. Then, an on/off-able field that sucks in weapons fire paired with a powerful combat auto-heal.

This allows it to tank for Raptors and other high damage units.

this is just a crazy suggestion and I'm not sure how possible it is using lua or otherwise but its something to increase the Pod's use.

[nightcold]

i would like to note that the arm offensive experiments lie within their t2 buildings (:D)

pods could use a long range jet booster(travel like 2/3 of the map)........and make them all terrain, and and amphibious.....and more range.....and a jammer....and a radar.....and more dps....and like a giant costal on it's head(:D)

expermentals play a very very small role in nota(spring in general)......if any...... it is always more cost/time/tacticity more efficient to just spam regular units(who wants 2 spend a hour makeing a kogth)

[Vergial]

I agree with ya, nightcold. Most of their power IS in T2 buildings, and Hell, I've won battles against CORE T2 with my T1 units. But being a guy who loves the airforce, my mind goes nuts when it comes to airborne ideas. Things like airborne carriers, a floating AA platform, things like that. Now, I don't care to see either of those two hit NOTA, but a flying experimental of some sort would make me love the air game even more.

As for buffs and whatnot for the Montros, I still vote no. Just because I think they are 'fine' as-is. I just don't like using them myself. I think they simply waste time unless mass-produced with a few Montros factories. I've seen the Montros described as 'the answer to the Krogoth' but it's really not. The Krogy can obliterate the Montros Pods like no one's business. It's just a matter of time to build--the Montros is built faster. But if the Krogy is already finished, you can kiss those pods g'nite.

[thelawenforcer]

1.62 is really quite a nice improvement.

However, as ive mentioned, core is much stronger than arm, most obviously in the air department. Id like to see the toadfoot get a buff to make it a bit better and able to be microed more. Also, AA does need a bit of another buff imo, as vashps can just pick them off quite easily. That said i dont want vashps nerfed as going heavy air is often your only choice in order to turn a game around if for instance your enemy has taken a strong position or has decided to hold a chokepoint with a defensive army.

the otherside where arm is rather weak is the vehicles (they dont have anything like the leveler, which is just a beast. i saw panthers used really nicely by cake to get a stealthy flank but i dont think that compensates.

the sniper is also rather weak compared to the mortie (if u have significant numbers of snipers they just do big overkill).

I think if these balance issues are rectified, you will have a hugely solid mod balance wise (not that it isnt already but the arm vs core imbalance is quite glaring imo).

[==Troy==]

Toadfoot is great as it is IMO, its main purpose is attacking single valued target with highly concentrated dps, which it does. There barely is any defence against 4-5 toads going together for a single target, they will die of course, but after the target is demolished.

The ARM hellfish does really well too, while not being invulnerable.

Problem with vashps is the launch angle for the missiles is crazy high, I realise that its needed for them to be able to launch missiles while they fly over the targets, since they are bombers code-wise, but that allows for an easy exploit of microing them out of range, or just landing them on the front line.

Id rather personally see either arm AA buffed so vashps are still effective in core vs core battles, but are not so much use in ARM vs core battles, because arm clearly has little answer to the vashps. (core can at least mirror the tactics). Adding some extra splash damage to the missiles would discourage massing the planes into a single "packed" unit which just annihilates anything in its way.

Id also like to note that mobile flak (the buildable one, not the veh one) is utterly useless, stationary flak builds faster and is cheaper to protect against strat bombers, while the usual targets you cover with it are stationary eco.

Maybe instead change the transportable flak model into one of those 4-barrelled flak turrets on ARM cruiser? Make it similar to the cost of a boxos, while actually making it efficient against air will give ARM nice touch against vashps by dropping those flaks on the front lines.

Snipers are a great counter to levelers IMO, I do agree that they are pretty useless otherwise, since leveler takes 2 hit to kill, the same as a puny hammer, +50 range to them might do a big deal.

I still personally want to see the arm crawling bomb buffed, maybe making it a bit weaker while reducing cost/buildtime should make it useful as a good fallback incase your frontline is fully blown, since, at the moment, the mines are rare to see. And I think I have never really seen crawling bombs used at all.

[Vergial]

Regarding your last note, I agree on that completely. Only time I ever see mines (and even then, it's just the crawling bomb) is when I face an AI. Any other time, I never see them used.

[thelawenforcer]

toads are expensive and take along time to build. vashps can perform the same job without all of them dying.

hellfish are so easy to counter aswell. See them coming, do a few scatter orders and they will do very little damage and all of them will die, meanwhile, the vashps are being microed around raping units and staying alive.

i dont want to see vashps nerfed cos i like strong air, but i would like to see arm air be a bit better and for AA to do a better job too.

[==Troy==]

imho, atm the game is basically : form frontline, wear it out with air, break through (or at least your way of doing it ). Air is a support IMO, its not supposed to be a game breaker, which is what vashps are at the moment.

Hellfish are good to use against a running pack, or when your line is breached, toads give you fast pin-point results. vashps do both, while also being immune to AA, Id say change the one standing out, do not drag up all other units to be a match for it.

[thelawenforcer]

just make the AA better and everything will be fine.

[nightcold]

Ok the role of mobile flanks is to be moved by a transport to a critical location that is 2 far to be built bt a tower.dont compare that 2 stationary flank

vapships are simply a combination of both a hellish and a toad.like how the core curser has a air pad, it is in cores nature to just stuff as much roles and firepower into each unit while arm is all about cost effiency(I personally think it should be the other way around based on each sides ideology.)

Arm needs(well not rlly needs) a giant floating air pad that has a ton of AAwith the ability to have planes stay on those pad till needed(carriers should be able to do that too) :D