Expand and Exterminate version 0.42

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

Im not dead, its just apparently whenever I show up and express some interest in working on this mod or changing anything in it, I get little to no support or response from anyone. I have no one to play it with, and everyone who is vaguely interested just wants me to revert to the OLD version which is essentially a funny reskin of OTA. This makes me question why they dont just play BA, or CA or what have you.

sad to hear this!
I found you current version (0.46) one of the best non TA mods for spring and a reference for good mod design with wounderfull ideas and a fresh blast ofer spring.
And this all in high quality ! (detailed units/textures,good differ from race to race ..)

ATM you can play not many different Mods on spring :

TA based (BA/CA/NOTA/BOTA/XTAPE and many more with only little ore medium differents - most other units/expanded units)
S44 - WW2 Based
Gundam - Gundam Universe Based
KP - Tron Like War
and EE
[hope anytime for IE .....]

So EE is a musst have mod for user that not only like "TA like" ...

Regards
R-TEAM

[Tribulex]

*sigh* it was terrible what d_b did.

You helped.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

if by revert to old, you mean make the buildings bigger so they aren't so tiny at playing distance, then yes, but this is still the most kick ass mod for spring

[AF]

I'm astonished you need us to tell you that we still support you, EE has a fan base, and we're not always here, but we always have our fingers crossed.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

besides full size buildings, the other thing EE desperately needs is a better icon scheme. Fang, im pretty sure if you came back you would have over 9000 volunteers to help with that

[Pxtl]

if by revert to old, you mean make the buildings bigger so they aren't so tiny at playing distance, then yes, but this is still the most kick ass mod for spring

I think the only problem most players have with the last changes to EE is the epic-scale - the game has goregeous models, we'd rather like to be able to play at a close enough zoom to see them. The hubs are cool, the units are cool, etc.

[knorke]

I think the only problem most players have with your changes to EE is the epic-scale

NO THEY BE WANTING OTA ALWAYS THE *A NOOBS!!!1

[Fanger]

Please explain to me how the early versions of EE were any different from BA, or AA or OTA Knorke.. please..

Im sorry smoth I meant to send you an email, but then classes started and I got busy. That and I cant really remember where the hell I was and without that I cant determine the best way to go. Im too far behind on modding information and engine changes that I dont know what I need to know anymore..

[knorke]

I would just like to play the latest EE but in a scale (units&weaponranges) where I can see stuff. Thats my only problem.
If you think that small units are the only thing that makes EE different from the *a mods then i dont know...

[Neuralize]

My name is Neuralize and I want to see EE come back.

[Fanger]

No, Knorke, I dont think that is the only thing, however pretty much any Idea I have had to make it less like TA, has been met pretty much with serious resistance by anyone who liked the early versions. The early versions before the scale reduction and remodeling, were basically OTA with different balancing and a new coat of paint. Pretty much all I get from everyone is theyd like to return to those "good" old days and this says to me that youd rather play TA, you just feel that you shouldnt or something and thus try to like different things when instead you should just go with the flow and play what you like, there is no shame in it.

[Pxtl]

Fanger, *every* gameplay change is going to get complaints, because players are invested in the current gameplay. They have invested time in learning to use it well, and get good at it. Change it, and you take that away from them. The difference is that good changes will get people defending them after they get used to them. For example, the hubs have more than a few vocal defenders (I know I like them).

[smoth]

they have had time to get "over" the epic units. They just push stubornly and to me it seems like borderline trolling. It is his project, he wanted it that way instead of suggesting ways that the epic scale could be a bit better they just demand a regression.

I found it to not be an issue when I played with it but even though fang has said no several times people continue to over state the effect the epic change had on gameplay.

[knorke]

Why do you always try to make people look like TA fanboys althought many times people have given good arguements?
Imo that is trolling.
I never even played the original TA.
I like everything, except that I can not see units and I think the weaponranges dont add depth but are just annoying.
I like hubs, airpads, eco and stuff.

[KaiserJ]

i'm not sure what version i've tried, but i enjoyed it immensely. its a shame reading that all you get is negative feedback; when people mention EE in spring its sort of a "omg its good" sort of context.

some people react poorly to changes in gameplay merely because they are resistant to change, not because the changes themselves are bad.

+1 positive feedback.

[smoth]

Why do you always try to make people look like TA fanboys althought many times people have given good arguements?
Imo that is trolling.

It becomes a default assumption after having years of people treating our projects as TA mods with little more than a graphic skin.

[Neddie]

I can do icons, and the present ones are fine. Sound, models and textures should be intact. UI should also be intact, though you may want to replace it with a custom UI eventually. You still know how to model and texture, you probably remember cob/bos.

Lua is the stumbling block. Unless I'm much mistaken, the present Lua needs to be updated. You've never been too good with Lua, no problem, I'm not either... nor are many game developers here. I'm sure Lurker, Evil4Zerggin, Smoth... at least two of them would be able to help, and probably all of them are willing to help. If you just sat down with them, loaded up the present game under the engine and took two or three hours you could find a direction for the lua changes.

All that leaves is balance, which as people have mentioned is always a point of tension. If you don't plan to change the scale, don't. I personally thought it would be nice to find a middle ground between Epic and Classic, but I work on 1944, where scale is the primary problem people have and truthfully the only semi-legitimate one. We can't effectively change our scale for design reasons which are integral, so I understand if Epic scale is a necessary element of your design.

The point is, you have a good game which probably has as many active supporters as Complete Annihilation, NOTA or 1944 combined with inactive supporters to rival those of XTA. Some won't come back, some people won't stay forever, but on the whole we would like to play a maintained, changing E&E, and many of us are willing to help.

[knorke]

ok, i understand.
but it wasnt really a question but more a "stop doing this." because it seems like a childish way to deal with feedback...

[Fanger]

Im not painting anyone to look like fanboys, but alot of the people who tend to oppose my changes have come from a background of playing OTA, or one of the other *A mods available to spring. This is neither a bad nor a good thing it just is. Their taste in gameplay colors their judgement on what they deem favorable, just as mine would.

I personally feel the scale and ranges add a sense of visual scale that effects the game. I have no interest to change it, and also do not understand why you have trouble seeing anything when you play. Im not trying to be hostile please understand, I Honestly cannot empathize with your position. I do not have a problem myself, and I really cannot see where the problem lies. Im not trying to say there isnt one but I dont follow it, or at least cant seem to notice it.

[knorke]

ok, maybe i should explain it again then.
To me when playing it is important that I can quickly see what a unit represents.
I have no problem with learning what unit is what, that is not the trouble.
I find it also important to see what my units are shooting at, to see if those enemies are getting nearer, running away or they are not getting hit at all due to walls or whatever. So either I must scroll around like mad all the time or use a fitting zoom.

But if you have to zoom in on every unit to tell them apart, that is as if you set up your OS not to display filenames but only icons.
Just imagine that for a second. You would have to mouse-over over every file to see its name. Now imagine you are searching a specific file. You would have to go through every single file, how annoying and tireing would that be!
That is what EE feels like for me. I want to play a game, not look at 2d bitmaps floating around on a 3d terrain or spent 80% of my clicking on camera movement.
So, that is only the visual side.

Gameplay wise, I think it dumbs down the game because all units can hit all enemy units all the time. (slightly exaggerated)
Just to give one example, artillery placement gets less important this way because almost every spot near the frontline is good enough to bomb most important places. Maybe realistic, I think its boring.

Spring engine wise:
In my experience, small units have problems firing proberly in spring due to trees and small bumps in the ground. That seems not tatical but purely random and is often just confusing.