hammer/thud change revert?
Moderator: Content Developer
hammer/thud change revert?
i've noticed that hammers and thuds seem to do a lot better than they used to. they were already good in 1v1, the unit of choice for a map with lots of hills, especially a high metal kbot map. they were effective on maps like cooper hill, brazillian battlefield, battle for planet x, etc. I think the new change is unwarranted and now they are seeing play on maps like geyser planes and are even better on the maps they were before good at. post your opinions thanks. im not saying they are OP now, but i think they were fine and the change was unwarranted. besides, imo it is not natural for plasma bots to be machine guns.....
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
i never really saw them used before the change but i only play team games
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
Units are MEANT to be effective at things
Change was minor
Micro should be rewarded.
Done, keep as-is.
Change was minor
Micro should be rewarded.
Done, keep as-is.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
Change was pretty major imo. I posted the day the changes were made that Hammers and Thuds felt cheaper. I see some players pump out 5-10 Thuds/Hammers at the very game start.
Imo, they are too OP now.
Imo, they are too OP now.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
I play mostly team games and I thought previously thud/hammer were only useful defending hills, but are now probably the kbot of choice for the late t1 stage. Early game I currently prefer rocko/storm to thud/hammer, but I wouldn't rule out changing my mind on this over time.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
I think we should give it more time to see which unit is more overpowered.
It's not uncommon to see a player pump out 5 to 10 flash at start.
It's not uncommon to see a player pump out 5 to 10 flash at start.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
I feel that thud is bit too powerful on small maps, but I do agree with this. Give it a bit more time, so there should be more knowledge to what change would be good if any.Beherith wrote:I think we should give it more time to see which unit is more overpowered.
It's not uncommon to see a player pump out 5 to 10 flash at start.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
thirded, even tho i dont have spring installed, i am for letting things be for a bit and then balance changes will be more apparent. we've had the old thuds for a long long time now. let the new ones make their case.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
The problem is that there are two styles of maps - Red Alert/Starcraft style (tiered but with ramps - these can be kbot-only ramps) and the ones that look like Perlin noise (ie. Brazillian). On Perlin noise maps, the plasma heightboost is used all the time. On tiered maps, the heightboost is mainly used for chokepoints - the rest of the battle occurs on flat land. In those cases, Hammers/thuds were useless.
And I can't think of a single large map that follows the Perlin noise model. So all the teamgame and FFA players saw the hammers/thuds as useless.
And I can't think of a single large map that follows the Perlin noise model. So all the teamgame and FFA players saw the hammers/thuds as useless.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
I dont think you guys understood my arguement. I am saying that hammers and thuds were fine units, not thought of as being underpowered before, and changing thier unit role for no reason was unwaranted and could change the mod for the worse. Balanced annihilation is a very stable mod and a big change like this is bad if it is unwarranted. Hammers and thuds are not OP now, they can just be used in a lot more situations and I think the difference changes the way kbots can be used and could have servere changes on the intricate balance of t1 units in 1v1s on balanced annihilation.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
You apparently didn't read the threads.flop wrote:I dont think you guys understood my arguement. I am saying that hammers and thuds were fine units, not thought of as being underpowered before, and changing thier unit role for no reason was unwaranted and could change the mod for the worse.
That was sort of the idea. Hammers, and kbots in general, had too narrow a role.Balanced annihilation is a very stable mod and a big change like this is bad if it is unwarranted. Hammers and thuds are not OP now, they can just be used in a lot more situations and I think the difference changes the way kbots can be used and could have servere changes on the intricate balance of t1 units in 1v1s on balanced annihilation.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
Thuds now easily beat flashes even on flat ground, i also think this was changed a bit too much.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
I tested this cost for cost and think you're wrong. Even when I wasn't taking advantage of the flash speed (and abillity to encircle the thuds) the flash were winning.caldera wrote:Thuds now easily beat flashes even on flat ground, i also think this was changed a bit too much.
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
thuds or hammers beat flash in most cases if they are microed properly
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
flash beat hammers if they're microed properly too. It's easier to get the flash to surround the hammers than vice versa since they're faster. On the other hand if you can exploit hills and wreckage that's exactly where the hammers should be winning with good microflop wrote:thuds or hammers beat flash in most cases if they are microed properly
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
What are these major role-changing mod-breaking changes are you people talking about?
As far as I can tell:
Reload : 1.75 -> 1.25 (-28.6%)
Damage : 104 -> 80 (-23.1%)
=> DPS : 59.4 -> 64 (+7%)
avoidfriendly added
predictboost added
For same cost/buildtime/hp/etc/etc
As far as I can tell:
Reload : 1.75 -> 1.25 (-28.6%)
Damage : 104 -> 80 (-23.1%)
=> DPS : 59.4 -> 64 (+7%)
avoidfriendly added
predictboost added
For same cost/buildtime/hp/etc/etc
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
projectile speed also got increased
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
Not according to weapons.tdfBeherith wrote:projectile speed also got increased
- 1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
I dont see how making a redundant unit useful can be viewed as a bad thing. it just means there are now a few more situations where 1 con 5 flash repeat is not the only option. lets not forget that the intracate balance of t1 units largely consists of making a few jeffys, spamming flash for 10 minutes, then spamming stumpyHammers and thuds are not OP now, they can just be used in a lot more situations and I think the difference changes the way kbots can be used and could have servere changes on the intricate balance of t1 units
Re: hammer/thud change revert?
Hammers and thuds were not redundant units. They saw/see play on lots of small maps. Your ideas about 1 flash 5 con then stumpies being the best is far from the truth unless your playing a large open map, and then hammers and thuds arent even useful (and shoudln't be) You basically just layed out a game of comet catcher, try playing some other maps.1v0ry_k1ng wrote:I dont see how making a redundant unit useful can be viewed as a bad thing. it just means there are now a few more situations where 1 con 5 flash repeat is not the only option. lets not forget that the intracate balance of t1 units largely consists of making a few jeffys, spamming flash for 10 minutes, then spamming stumpyHammers and thuds are not OP now, they can just be used in a lot more situations and I think the difference changes the way kbots can be used and could have servere changes on the intricate balance of t1 units