TA clash?

[smoth]

tribu, I know you are just ribbing zoy but it could be seen as harassment.

Zoy is trying, what are you doing, belittling him because you won't man up? How about leaving some actual feedback instead of just giving the guy a hard time.

Zoy, that was probably a bomb they are never going to let you live down everyone thinks they can balance stuff and none of us have.

[Zoy64]

keep in mind, this is the beta release...

and trib, please back off.

and about the balancing thing, well, there is more than meets the eye. for example, i gave the Talon shields that are weak against one thing...
you guessed it, the weapons of the Mynn.

[Gota]

Sigh...
gl with it...balancing all these plus core and arm is a task for another 10 years.

Listen.
If you make all the fbi's into lua files so lua scripts can be ran through them i will help you.

Same applies if you can just get someone to write complex scripts in python.

[aegis]

Same applies if you can just get someone to write complex scripts in python.

what

[Gota]

Need scripts to deal with different fbi files in a mod.
To take a values from files in one directory and change other files based on them.
Read tags in certain files to modify tags in other files.
Stuff like that.
And scripts that can make such changes in big numbers of files at once.
Maybe there is a better language to make such scripts?i'm not sure..

[aegis]

there is no better scripting language... but formula-based balance? it can't feasibly handle all variables, and a perfectly-balanced mod will not be as fun

[Gota]

Nonsense.
you don't need to deal with all variables.
You just need enough accuracy to make it feel balanced.To not have game breaking units.
With 5 factions there is no other way.Just think of how long it took to balance AA/BA with only 2 races.
AS i said if you can supply the scripts i will supply the formulas even for each weapon type and will try and take many tags into consideration.
Might also need some analyzing scripts to make a list of all tags that are used by the units in the 5 factions.It would have to analyzie all fbis and the weapon tdf file for the various tags.

there is no better scripting language... but formula-based balance? it can't feasibly handle all variables, and a perfectly-balanced mod will not be as fun

Well if you dont want it to be perfectly balanced and think that having over powered units is fun you can take the result after it goes through
the formulas and manually buff units you want to be over powered.
or apply another formula to over power units with certain attributes..etc..

[smoth]

thread split please, people who believe in equation based balance and people who believe in feel based balance can get into epic debates. This thread will get consumed in this discussion depending on what personalities see this debate happening again.

It is a good debate one that we as content devs should think about but honestly it will consume this thread. I am not against the disucusion hell I will likely join in but it really needs to be it's own thread, both to allow people to easily find the debate and also to allow zoy to have his thread.

[Google_Frog]

Gota how do you balance range? Say the mod most common turret range is 500. The difference between 480 and 520 is much more than 440 and 480. The range on the 520 unit makes it able to out range most turrets but how would this be factored into an equation?

Mods with formula balancing lack the extreme units that make the mod interesting because they would break the equation. Wasn't the Jeffy in SA unarmed for a while because it was too fast?

[Zoy64]

Gota: i would be glad to let you do Lua stuff (its all Gaelic to me).

We are going to add TLL and Argon in a later release, so we will need to get this release ship-shape.

There is one problem we havent figured out yet:

(My teamcolor was orange, and those are my units. and for those of you asking, i use Speedmetal to test stuff.)

Zoy

[smoth]

bad choice for a test map zoy. Speed metal increases the speed of all units by 2 iirc. BAD BAD choice.

you cannot test on that map because it increases the speed of the unit. The mobility of a unit effects all aspects of combat and base construction.

NOT GOOD find another map.

[Tribulexrenamed]

lol, shows his uber good balancing skills and modding skils.

[smoth]

what are you doing tribulex? Talk is cheap effort is harder.

[Gota]

It was unarmed because the formula was built in a way that didnt allow for low dmg weapons.since the fact of giving a weapon to a unit no matter how low damage had a certain initial cost.
The formula was flawed.

What has balance got to do with extreme units.
Isn't a krogoth extreme?What is extreme?a unit that has a very high stat?
If you make a good formula you can do almost anything.

[Gota]

I need a drama update.why does Tribulex not like zoy?

[smoth]

Not sure yan.

[Gota]

Alex*

[Zoy64]

Trib hates me 'cuz, well, i dont know...

Gota, meet me on the lobby, we can talk formulas there.

and i used Speed metal for the *almost* unlimited resources; so i wont have to forage.

[Google_Frog]

Cheat yourself some fusions for E abilities and use /nocost.

[Gota]

What formulas i wont do anything till someone says he can help with scripts.
Aegis?