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They hit air and ground. They just dont do either exceptionally well. In CA, air is a much more valid starting fac, meaning its much more likely someone will pick air early and use it offensively. Therefore, if you are being harassed by light air attacks (Or suspect you may be) you can build defenders without having them be a total absolute waste of resources if he stops (or doesnt) use air against you.DemO wrote:So what's the point in building defenders at all? When I tested them against ground they were mega fail, so I expected they would be at least half decent against air.
They are 'hedging your bets' against a weak air opposition. Against a strong air force, you need the dedicated forms of AA.
That being said, defenders are enough to protect you from scouts, bladewings, blastwings, atlas's, fighters, and are ok vs bombers- they only perform really poorly vs gunships (due to their long reload time which is specifically designed to pick off enemies doing quick flyovers).
As for their land abilities, they're good for keeping scouts off you as well as offering some defence against skirmishers harassing your LLT's.
The balance isnt totally finished though, AA wise.
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BlueTemplar
- Posts: 314
- Joined: 28 Oct 2007, 22:37
Somebody posted this in #ca, I think it is pretty lol 
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5948 ... iontw9.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5948 ... iontw9.jpgI just noticed that the nanospray texture is much bigger than it should be. Fixed in revision 808, it should now be as fast as the default texture.BlueTemplar wrote:Is there a way to "dumb down" the graphical effects like the new nanospray effect so that old computers would be able to run CA without horrible slowdown?
It shouldn't have caused horrible slowdowns though, let me know if you still have them.
I have not played this many times, but some feedback from early games, I have played lately mostly arm so this feedback is more or less what I have found with playing arm:
* Arm emp bomber, stiletto was quite poor. It could not stop even sumo. I don't know if sumo requires more emp bombers, but at least one emp bombers didn't stop any sumo.
* Arm's Banshee light gunship is bit too good in my opinion. They don't do much damage, they seems to be bit too much hp.
(Or then Anti-air towers are bit too weak.)
* Arm's orcone, I don't have real opinion yet, but I feel that it may be too good against core because Core doesn't have sniper. You can always stop krogoth with sharpshooters, but I still don't know how to stop Orcono without lvl3 bots
* Arm's mumbo riot tank. I didn't find use for this yet, it cost almost much as bulldog but health is only 1/6 from bulldog?, in real battle, even it would make much more damage than bulldog it may be too easily killed. (this opinion can be totally wrong anyways).
* In core's side, I had little difficulties to notice morty. (I use default graphics).
Few quick positive sides:
+ Rapier is well balanced. I think.
+ Juggernaut, Krow are not too good. I have not tried juggernaut yet, but at least it has only 100k hp, that's possible to kill.
+ I like that metal and energy default storages are small so you must build additional storages.
* Arm emp bomber, stiletto was quite poor. It could not stop even sumo. I don't know if sumo requires more emp bombers, but at least one emp bombers didn't stop any sumo.
* Arm's Banshee light gunship is bit too good in my opinion. They don't do much damage, they seems to be bit too much hp.
(Or then Anti-air towers are bit too weak.)
* Arm's orcone, I don't have real opinion yet, but I feel that it may be too good against core because Core doesn't have sniper. You can always stop krogoth with sharpshooters, but I still don't know how to stop Orcono without lvl3 bots
* Arm's mumbo riot tank. I didn't find use for this yet, it cost almost much as bulldog but health is only 1/6 from bulldog?, in real battle, even it would make much more damage than bulldog it may be too easily killed. (this opinion can be totally wrong anyways).
* In core's side, I had little difficulties to notice morty. (I use default graphics).
Few quick positive sides:
+ Rapier is well balanced. I think.
+ Juggernaut, Krow are not too good. I have not tried juggernaut yet, but at least it has only 100k hp, that's possible to kill.
+ I like that metal and energy default storages are small so you must build additional storages.
* Emb bomber can handle Sumo in several passes (watch it's EMP bar) - BA emp bomber is overpowered unit
* Banshee die very quickly against dedicated AA (packo or razor's kiss) - if you duilt defenders, dont wonder :)
* Mumbo is excellent anti-swarm weapon (good against masses of L1 stuff where bulldogs can't cope)
* Banshee die very quickly against dedicated AA (packo or razor's kiss) - if you duilt defenders, dont wonder :)
* Mumbo is excellent anti-swarm weapon (good against masses of L1 stuff where bulldogs can't cope)
Ok. my emp bombers always die after first passing because usually my opponents are prepared against air units too (gunships and others can be nasty). In BA emp bomber is over powered unit if opponent doesn't use somekind line formation and anti-air units behind. (means he is not good player).Licho wrote:* Emb bomber can handle Sumo in several passes (watch it's EMP bar) - BA emp bomber is overpowered unit
Ok. I didn't happen to me anyways because I used bashees (not my opponent). I just felt that they are bit too good in the beginning.* Banshee die very quickly against dedicated AA (packo or razor's kiss) - if you duilt defenders, dont wonder :)
Ok. Need to check... someday.* Mumbo is excellent anti-swarm weapon (good against masses of L1 stuff where bulldogs can't cope)
EDIT: Oh, woops, late reply.
Also, the sniper isn't preposterously effective against Krogoths/Orcones. It deals 40% less damage per shot than BA, and doesn't have a 3x damage bonus against T3 (it has other strengths). Most special damages were removed in CA. There is no easy way to deal with a Krogoth by using conventional ground units. Slowly batter it until it dies, plant a bomb on it with a Commando, D-Gun it or kill it from the air.
Might be true. Will be buffed.Flaxie wrote: * Arm emp bomber, stiletto was quite poor. It could not stop even sumo. I don't know if sumo requires more emp bombers, but at least one emp bombers didn't stop any sumo.
Are you relying on missile towers for air-defense? Missile towers are very basic, you should get a Razor's Kiss, a Pack0 or fighters to protect yourself more effectively.* Arm's Banshee light gunship is bit too good in my opinion. They don't do much damage, they seems to be bit too much hp.
(Or then Anti-air towers are bit too weak.)
The Orcone has half the Krogoth's DPS, for roughly the same cost.* Arm's orcone, I don't have real opinion yet, but I feel that it may be too good against core because Core doesn't have sniper. You can always stop krogoth with sharpshooters, but I still don't know how to stop Orcono without lvl3 bots
Also, the sniper isn't preposterously effective against Krogoths/Orcones. It deals 40% less damage per shot than BA, and doesn't have a 3x damage bonus against T3 (it has other strengths). Most special damages were removed in CA. There is no easy way to deal with a Krogoth by using conventional ground units. Slowly batter it until it dies, plant a bomb on it with a Commando, D-Gun it or kill it from the air.
The Mumbo is very effective against flash/gators. It kills them before they have a chance to damage it.* Arm's mumbo riot tank. I didn't find use for this yet, it cost almost much as bulldog but health is only 1/6 from bulldog?, in real battle, even it would make much more damage than bulldog it may be too easily killed. (this opinion can be totally wrong anyways).
Yes, the Morty model might be a bit small.* In core's side, I had little difficulties to notice morty. (I use default graphics).
Few quick positive sides:
+ Rapier is well balanced. I think.
+ Juggernaut, Krow are not too good. I have not tried juggernaut yet, but at least it has only 100k hp, that's possible to kill.
+ I like that metal and energy default storages are small so you must build additional storages.
Would it be possible to add progress status or something to the download part of the updater ui? "Loading data from caspring.org" with no hint as to how long I should wait makes me angry -_- lol.
But I've been playing CA for a long time on sp and its amazingly teh pwnage awesomezors!! And I suppose small files may not really need a progress status.... just maybe....
But I've been playing CA for a long time on sp and its amazingly teh pwnage awesomezors!! And I suppose small files may not really need a progress status.... just maybe....
[Double health, non-reclaimable walls of dewm anyone? 
]
Better than BA? No
Getting there? Yes
IMO, one of the things that bothers me above all others in CA, is not the general balance of units, but some of the way overdone effects.
Particularly with units that fire superfast, such as Gator, Sumo, Exploiters, stronger AA turrets just to name a few.
It just seems that those units are doing nothing more than spammy clutter that can hurt game performance.
Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but I know that firefights with these named units can shove my FPS down fast and CPU usage way up where normally it shouldn't be.
My second gripe is with how the economy spikes around alot, even with lots of storage, the meters for Energy and metal go crazy seemingly at random, E mostly but still makes me wonder why even with lots of storage it jumps so wildly like it does.
Per structure storage worked great when Caydr started adding into AA, and then when BA kept it on, it just smooths things out IMO.
My last and final gripe is how Metal Makers seem to ignore AI controll, I'm almost always having to set them to the default AI via control panel to get them to work, the LUA widgets for "Improved metal makers" , and "metal makers" seem to react very strangely in CA with them.
Getting there? Yes
IMO, one of the things that bothers me above all others in CA, is not the general balance of units, but some of the way overdone effects.
Particularly with units that fire superfast, such as Gator, Sumo, Exploiters, stronger AA turrets just to name a few.
It just seems that those units are doing nothing more than spammy clutter that can hurt game performance.
Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but I know that firefights with these named units can shove my FPS down fast and CPU usage way up where normally it shouldn't be.
My second gripe is with how the economy spikes around alot, even with lots of storage, the meters for Energy and metal go crazy seemingly at random, E mostly but still makes me wonder why even with lots of storage it jumps so wildly like it does.
Per structure storage worked great when Caydr started adding into AA, and then when BA kept it on, it just smooths things out IMO.
My last and final gripe is how Metal Makers seem to ignore AI controll, I'm almost always having to set them to the default AI via control panel to get them to work, the LUA widgets for "Improved metal makers" , and "metal makers" seem to react very strangely in CA with them.
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the-middleman
- Posts: 190
- Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 12:18
I noticed these economic spikes too. Although im spamming storages all over the place my E and M bars are jumping around like crazy. Not good for defensive turrets.
Also I may sound like a noob but im having really hard times getting metal at all. Me and a friend we play 1vs1 on really huge maps(meant for 4vs4 or more) and although I exploit metal where I can I hardly ever get enough to build a decent army.
Also I may sound like a noob but im having really hard times getting metal at all. Me and a friend we play 1vs1 on really huge maps(meant for 4vs4 or more) and although I exploit metal where I can I hardly ever get enough to build a decent army.
Weren't you e-stalling middleman? L2 needs more energy than in BA .. but overally economy is faster with more powerfull wind and mex morphing.
Regarding spikes - there might be some issues with built-in metal maker controller, do you still get them if you disable this widget? And try keeping e-storage higher than e-income, this should really help against spikes.
Regarding spikes - there might be some issues with built-in metal maker controller, do you still get them if you disable this widget? And try keeping e-storage higher than e-income, this should really help against spikes.
It happens all the time, even when you have an excess economy, if you're stalling you just hit rock bottom fast.
Just using BA as a base, when I have a strong E economy, the bar is smoothly floating right around my limit or the share bar if I have energy being shared to teamates which I always do.
Example, I have +2000 E income, -1000 drain, and storage enough to handle twice my income level, and even with a +1000 surplus the fluctuation's jump up and down like mad.
Mostly I wonder if its one of the widgets going crazy, or something to do with the economy structure in CA and hows its handled.
Just using BA as a base, when I have a strong E economy, the bar is smoothly floating right around my limit or the share bar if I have energy being shared to teamates which I always do.
Example, I have +2000 E income, -1000 drain, and storage enough to handle twice my income level, and even with a +1000 surplus the fluctuation's jump up and down like mad.
Mostly I wonder if its one of the widgets going crazy, or something to do with the economy structure in CA and hows its handled.
Just a guess, as I don't wanna play CA anymore until some uninterested veteran tells me it won't disappoint, but it's probably some unit (maybe a tier 2 EMG like Brawlers) with a very high energy use per shot that, when spammed, E stalls you when they start firing. Easy way to tell is to pause the game when you see a drop occuring (claim your dog's humping your girlfriend or something) and check your units to see what's going on.
On a side note, while I don't like the overdone graphics of CA too much yet either, I more dislike the lack of consistency - change it all or change it not at all seems preferable (and better effects for better units - that LLT laser's too cool to waste on a LLT, whereas the HLT snot gun [last I saw]... was a snot gun).
On a side note, while I don't like the overdone graphics of CA too much yet either, I more dislike the lack of consistency - change it all or change it not at all seems preferable (and better effects for better units - that LLT laser's too cool to waste on a LLT, whereas the HLT snot gun [last I saw]... was a snot gun).
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[Krogoth86]
- Posts: 1176
- Joined: 23 Aug 2007, 19:46
I agree on that. I also don't like well those Star Wars like "Lasers" as they are more some sort of short plasma streams but no real lasers as they should be an instant beam just like in BA. Besides that I also hate em because of their "flashiness" i.e. to enemies face each other and there are this numerous fast things flying around everywhere - an epileptic festival...MR.D wrote:IMO, one of the things that bothers me above all others in CA, is not the general balance of units, but some of the way overdone effects.
Particularly with units that fire superfast, such as Gator, Sumo, Exploiters, stronger AA turrets just to name a few.
It just seems that those units are doing nothing more than spammy clutter that can hurt game performance.
I can confirm this. Sometimes the widget doesn't seem to work after all - I once had the situation that I ran out of energy (because I was building something) but the Moho Makers didn't even turn off at all so I had to switch them to the Metal Maker AI and then it worked again...MR.D wrote:My last and final gripe is how Metal Makers seem to ignore AI controll, I'm almost always having to set them to the default AI via control panel to get them to work, the LUA widgets for "Improved metal makers" , and "metal makers" seem to react very strangely in CA with them.
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Engine Of Darkness
- Posts: 87
- Joined: 23 Dec 2006, 21:36
I'm with you that laser should look and act like laser, but hell no, don't turn back to "old style 1999" grapics. I don't play spring at highest settings (at lowest actually). And honestly I'm against supporting <1.5 ghz systems with onboard/ gf 5 generation cards till kingdom come.
If your computer can't handle the mod, don't play it, there are enough other mods. Oh that's booring? Problem on your end.
If you don't want to buy a decent system because you don't need it you clearly priorized your needs. Therefore you don't need to get a special treatment by modmakers. Having no money for a new system is also no reason to ask for that.
Anyway, i'm looking forward to see more
If your computer can't handle the mod, don't play it, there are enough other mods. Oh that's booring? Problem on your end.
If you don't want to buy a decent system because you don't need it you clearly priorized your needs. Therefore you don't need to get a special treatment by modmakers. Having no money for a new system is also no reason to ask for that.
Anyway, i'm looking forward to see more