Modell format

Post by **Yeha** » 25 Jul 2005, 22:55

We are starting to work on upgrading the 3d model format to something a little better suited for spring than the current TA 3do format.

So far its basicly its the same as TA with an object hirarchy but with added normals and textur coordinates to allow complete skinning of the modell.

If someone has any good ideas about simple features than can be usefull now or in the future feel free to post something in here :)

//Edit(SJ): Yeha only means the unit 3d modell format not scripts, fbi stuff etc that we will take somewhere else later

RightField · Post by **RightField** » 25 Jul 2005, 23:38

Filtering modes for object parts. At least 2 color alpha, full alpha and additive, then also later modulated? This way you can set any part of a model to use the filtering mode and will add support for alpha channels in textures later on. If you would want a glow on the model then, you could just make a black texture with a colored radian fill on, and set filtering to additive, etc.

Another thing nice would be billboarding. Basicly, making an object or a face constantly face the camera. X, Z, and Y billboarding should be supported.

Connected meshes, with a changeable value. Makes vertexes close to each other in two objects connect to each other. Value can be changed on how far connection distance will go.

Also! Addable particle emiters on the model itself. Would be nice for fusions or similar, maybe a bit too much to ask for but if you can, do it!

One more thing to mention, enviromental maps. Basicly a second map you place upon a textured object or face, making it simulate reflective or similar effects. Handy for making that shiny metal, glass stuff or fusion fancy stuff.

AF · Post by AF » 26 Jul 2005, 00:00

Finish off gnomes model work on diffrent models for different environments, and implement the idea I had of high res models at close up then zoom out to ordinary models then zoom out to low res models.

Perpolygon detection for mouse selection and at least the option to switch between box bounding and perpolygon for unti collisions in settings.

Longaxe · Post by **Longaxe** » 26 Jul 2005, 00:59

Since, UV and normal mapping are already in, I think that the next most important things are, support for triangular faces (if it isn├óÔé¼Ôäót already in), and a few alpha channels.

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 26 Jul 2005, 01:33

All I wish is that I can model with a good and free program.

And support for bumpmap is feasible or usefull?

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 26 Jul 2005, 02:36

Torrasque wrote:All I wish is that I can model with a good and free program.

And support for bumpmap is feasible or usefull?

What's wrong with Blender?

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 26 Jul 2005, 02:42

Would it be possible to change what piece is a piece attached too? Making the pieces tree re-arrangeable ingame?

Also, I'd like textures with transparency. And semi transparency too. (Alpha I think they call it). And grey textures where the color is given by the team color. And unlimited number of team colors btw. And also textures that are set for each player to put their logo on. I mean, instead of just Arm and Core logo for instance, each player could make his own little symbol and have all his unit wear it. Oh some way to change the texture on a face too.

I'd also like deformable pieces. Right now each piece is solid rigid block, you can move pieces relative to other piece, but can't deform a piece. I'd like to move just a single point of a single face. Uhm, there's probably more scripter-friendly ways to deform pieces, I don't know.

That billboarding is good too. I remember scripting it into my 2D TA units. Would be nice to have it handled by the engine, especially with the free camera that made any sneaky way to add with a unit script impossible. And allowing both fulll billboarding and billboarding only on the horizontal plane is good.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 26 Jul 2005, 04:04

Specularity!

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 26 Jul 2005, 06:16

Will normal texturing modes still be supported? and normal .3do's? otherwise we'd have to reskin all models...good development none-the-less.

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 26 Jul 2005, 08:08

Felix the Cat wrote:
Torrasque wrote:All I wish is that I can model with a good and free program.

And support for bumpmap is feasible or usefull?
What's wrong with Blender?

Blenders a bitch to start using.

Wings3d is good and easy to learn. Not suited for high end rendering but perfect for this kind of work.

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 26 Jul 2005, 11:39

zwzsg wrote:Would it be possible to change what piece is a piece attached too? Making the pieces tree re-arrangeable ingame?

That would be nice for that possible race where we mount units out of available chassis and weapons.

# Would it be possible to make some of the textures GIFed or something so we can have animations into it? Say, like seeing the semi-transparent walls of the fusion reactor (alpha) and inside, the fusion core changing colors and stuff. Or moving textures like those models in Quake 3 where we see lava flow underneath or energy flow within a plasma gun.

# It would be nice, also, if some of the units faces, allowed to have it's texture from a video player or something. That way, we could have, what might be called billboards(?) like in Dark Reign 2, that shows animations.
See these:
http://www.pandemicstudios.com/games/dr ... wl_001.jpg
http://www.pandemicstudios.com/games/dr ... wl_002.jpg
To see what i mean.

# About defining a model, the possibility to define it's core and redundant pieces. That way, as the unit takes damage, the redundant pieces start to disapear and the core part of the unit never disapears. (hm, working with the pieces might be too cpu/gpu expensive? Maybe, instead, the possibility to make the textures on those pieces completely transparent (or maybe even partly transparent as the unit takes damage) when trigered by damege taken) Can you imagine a Krogoth after a hell of a pounding missing alot of parts but still showing it's core skeleton or a big Warlord ship missing most of it's parts except for the hull and it's big guns

. (nice way to show damage when combined with the smoke to have instead of the health bars)

Michilus_nimbus · Post by **Michilus_nimbus** » 26 Jul 2005, 12:25

Anim8or format support. It's a nice, easy to use, light weight (1,4 Mb to be exact) 3D modelling program.
I like it

[K.B.] Napalm Cobra · Post by **[K.B.] Napalm Cobra** » 26 Jul 2005, 13:05

Wings3D can export to more formats.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 26 Jul 2005, 13:08

Animated textures...

Triaxx2 · Post by **Triaxx2** » 26 Jul 2005, 13:36

Hell, even the ability to directly use DXF's, and triangles, would be good enough for me.

RightField · Post by **RightField** » 26 Jul 2005, 14:11

Composite materials. Combined with the replaceable team color texture thingy z mentioned you could have a team colored material underneath then an alphaed material on top making it easy to team colorize any texture just by editing the alpha channel.

AF · Post by AF » 26 Jul 2005, 15:20

And also textures that are set for each player to put their logo on. I mean, instead of just Arm and Core logo for instance, each player could make his own little symbol and have all his unit wear it. Oh some way to change the texture on a face too.

I started a thread on that a while back, and I expanded, saying we could allow suers to define models instead of textures, such as a flag or a banner that was added to the unit.

Also Features having idle scripts, such as trees having scripts that make themsway, or make them flatten when they're crushed by tanks instead of just dissapearing.

Also the ability to tag faces as walkable, for things such as platforms, bridges, archways etc. Or to flag them as stairs.

aTTacK · Post by **aTTacK** » 26 Jul 2005, 20:10

yeha, will it be released with the next release or will it take longer ?

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 26 Jul 2005, 20:33

Some face to place a player symbol cammo, and also some face to place a rank symbol showing veterancy: nothing, one bar, two bars, one chevron, two chevrons, three chevrons and a star,.... well I don't know mililary ranks but you get the idea: there would be a list of little rank pictures, and each time a unit get a veterancy increment, the face defined as an insigna display gets updated with a new rank symbol over the texture. In the race definition sidedata.tdf (or equivelent) you'll define the name of the file containing the pictures of all the ranks.

Which brings us to the point that for player symbol, rank symbol, and probably other things, we need some way to paste a texture with transparency over another texture.

Also, in the new model format, I want flares to be reintegrated into the model. Transparency and X, Z, Y billboarding will comes handy for flares. (Billboarding as in always facing the camera, not as TV screens on a unit.)

Forgot to mention it but yes animated textures are needed. It's not even a "new feature", it's just "support for old TA units".

Don't forget that I also want to be able to combine all that into animated transparent team colored textures with animated-transparent-team-colored-too-player symbol imprinted over.

Also, many players seem to like the FPS mode. Maybe with the new model format should come a way to define a cockpit to use with each model? One way would be to have a 2D picture resized to the screen definition, but that doesn't seem that good. A 3d cockpit would allow to turn the head to look through the side window, and that would be much better. Also, for a good looking cockpit, we need to have all sorts of dials, whatever-meters, displays, etc... that indicate values pertaining to the unit, like speed, altitude, health, etc... If we have a limited set of hard coded display, then creativity will be limited, and all cockpits will be forced to look the same. So it would be best if the meters in the cockpit could be scripted, for instance you'd model your dial, and then do something like "turn needle_of_the_speedometer to y-axis (get speed_of_the_unit)*scale now;" On the other hand having to script the hide and show for all the bits of a numeric digital display would soon be very tedious, so having part of the cockpit displays pre-made could be good. Or maybe just a way to print a value on a face with a custom font. Well, that cockpit part is probably going way too far, so do whatever you can.

Don't know if it's more a script or a model thing, but I want to be able to refer to pieces with a number. For instance in a 20 segment worm, I want to do a for(K=1;K<=20;++K) where K design a piece. (But I feel that TA already allows that and that it's just ScriptorV1 being picky with such syntax.)

PauloMorfeo · Post by **PauloMorfeo** » 26 Jul 2005, 22:09

zwzsg wrote:...
Also, many players seem to like the FPS mode. ...

I actually think that in the, so called, FPS mode, the camera should not become FPS but, instead, 3rd person view. That way we would not need to define cockpit, we would see the unit for coolness and we would end up those problems with driving a unit when we don't know where the unit is facing.

Spring RTS Engine

Modell format

Modell format