EE version 0.173 Final (no more stuffs)

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 23 Feb 2007, 05:12

I've actually never had a single problem with this unit identification thiny, so I can't say which units might need this "Sollutions"

BDCoolio · Post by **BDCoolio** » 23 Feb 2007, 05:38

The only units I'd prefer changed are the l2 and l3 con bots, with more yellow/black stripes. I think everything else looks great.

I think the only reason to change other l2/3 units would be to maintain the uniform style, like tanks on the stealth flamer mech.

In other words, yes, I think l1 URC was the only group of units people had issues with.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:37

That's definitely a step in the right direction

I think it'll be pretty nice, when the textures are a little more subtle. It kind've points out how noisy the base textures are, though, so you might want to make them more bland and less busy to compensate. For example, instead of this:

Use stuff like this (which I hereby release, under the terms of the GPL):

In short, get rid of the noisy, nasty Cavedog work. Get stuff with unified lighting, more subtle colors, and generally tone things down, so that your models don't look so noisy.

As a quickie example, and bear in mind, this is just ONE texture revamped...

... and that's just one, quick, not-terribly-well-designed texture. The big problem with the skins is that you're using stuff from Cavedog that looks like crap... plus your using a lot of distorted facets on your models, which really smear the textures everywhere. On second thought, just keep working on learning S3O (that's pretty much where I end up every time I revisit this argument, lol... 3DOs look so terrible)...

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:40

That looks really good argh, Although fang isn't using TA textures anymore. However, that ship looks really nice. Also, yeah fang is looking into the s3o format..

*edit* AH! I see why you thought he was using cavedog textures because he just redid the texture and kept the old name. *end edit*

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:44

I just downloaded the mod, and it was definately using the Skinny texture from Cavedog (it was still 8-bit BMP, Smoth, and I know that set of textures quite well... trust me, it wasn't something new unless all he did was a color-swap)- and there are lots of other examples, unless this has all been changed since the last release... but it's besides the point. Even a few better textures, with more subtle contrast, either elimination of panel lines entirely, or very stark ones for that armored-tortoise look, etc., can make a huge difference.

For example... here, lemme show you guys a neat trick:

Take Skinny, blow it up to 256/256... apply a Gaussian Blur of 3 pixels radii... shrink it back to 64/64... apply Sharpen... and:

Yeah, yeah, for it to be really pro, it needs more tightening, and maybe a second level of Sharpen. Really, honestly, it just needs to be reworked so that the colors aren't artificially shaded- that's one of the main things that make the old textures so fuggly. But meh.

Anyhow, it's all irrelevant... just keep moving forwards on S3O, and eventually the models will look really nice. That is, long term, the best way to go.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 23 Feb 2007, 09:49

I see what your saying, I would like to s3o EE, however given the number of units in EE it is a large undertaking..

I am in fact not using the the cavedog textures I have replaced them all, just without changing the names to convserve time..

Here is an ingame shot for a different shot..

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:04

That's quite a bit better, although just as a general rule, you wanna avoid high contrast in areas where the model is really distorted, like the right/left polygons used as the lower-level edges of the flightpad. Areas like that will show the distortion the most, and it's usually a good idea to hide that. Keep in mind that Spring is going to automagically scruntch the texture down as the viewpoint rises, and it doesn't take a lot of contrast before things look like noisy crap at a distance. But yeah, that's better- more subtle colors really help make things look a lot more professional.

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 23 Feb 2007, 11:43

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I built a l3 GD bombardment ship and instead of sitting there and bombarding it insisted on driving right up to it's target and getting killed. Repeatedly.

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 23 Feb 2007, 17:38

The tanks in SB do that, I have yet to find out why >_<

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Feb 2007, 18:29

Hold Position and pray. All I can say.

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 23 Feb 2007, 18:56

I'm pretty sure hold position is nullified by a direct attack order.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Feb 2007, 19:23

Hence why you don't make an attack order, and simply hold position in range.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 23 Feb 2007, 21:24

Some stuff is spring issues, that I think I could work around but that might get annoying later..

Examples are the nuke arty, subs, and cruisemissile launcher.. always keep an eye on them they like to wander around, also set them to hold fire and make sure you give them a stop command after you fire them off..

arty also should be on hold fire..

Andreask · Post by **Andreask** » 23 Feb 2007, 21:30

Hi Fang!

Scince i rarely comment on these forums these days, i will note a few of my observations made with the latest EE down and be done with it.

- The new MODELS are beautiful, especially the bots of URC, they convey the fealing of insects nicely.

- The new TEXTURES are too noisy and hard to tell apart from a distance. Less random details would be more pleasing to the eye. Especially the URC textures are VERY noisy.
You will not be able to remedy that by adding brighter team colors, i am certain. What needs to be done is what Argh said, lowering the stress on the players eye, by making the textures more clean.

- The modder who came up with all the neat explosion and light effects deserves a cookie.

- The new gameplay concepts works just fine, except for the impression that URC missile bots must have recieved a buff, i won games by spamming missile bots exclusively, and they could kill entire GD bases, like it was in the first beta. Even properly aligned tank coulmns would not stop them.

Thats all for now, more when i had a chance to try ships. Air balance seems ok.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 24 Feb 2007, 00:33

Andreask wrote: - The new gameplay concepts works just fine, except for the impression that URC missile bots must have recieved a buff, i won games by spamming missile bots exclusively, and they could kill entire GD bases, like it was in the first beta. Even properly aligned tank coulmns would not stop them.

*ahem* Incorrect

replay:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 4f016dd951

I actually did some reasonably extensive testing, and came to the conclusion that the missle tank is actually slightly underpowered, but not much. Unfortunately I was not away that spring only does demos thru the lobby.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 24 Feb 2007, 01:03

He's talking about the urc missile mech, not gd missile tanks, Forb. As for them being overpowered, that could be the case, but I haven't seen it in my extensive playing.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 24 Feb 2007, 01:59

I'm aware deci. Maybe you should look at the demo.

Due to the results of my testing, I found that the missle tanks were actually somewhat underpowered. That was determined while testing to see whether the rocket mechs were overpowered.

Remember, the cannon tanks were given a boost, but the missle tanks were not touched. So if you wanna get super technical, your force is actually a little bit less effective when you include missle tanks with your mix.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 24 Feb 2007, 02:02

er no, because your assuming that the powerlevel of the older tanks as normal when that was in fact reduced.. the rocket units do their specified damage amount..

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 24 Feb 2007, 03:09

Fanger wrote:er no, because your assuming that the powerlevel of the older tanks as normal when that was in fact reduced.. the rocket units do their specified damage amount..

Good point. Regardless, my intent was to debunk andreask's claim, and I was able to do so quite easily(not to say they shouldn't be looked at. The fact is that even if they are a little OP, you can't just build them and get away with it very well. We've seen people make this claim over and over and over, and every time they have gotten their asses wiped for them against a decent player.).

Andreask, it would be nice to see the replay of that game so we can make sure. Never hurts to check this stuff out ya know.

AF · Post by AF » 24 Feb 2007, 03:15

Examples are the nuke arty, subs, and cruisemissile launcher.. always keep an eye on them they like to wander around, also set them to hold fire and make sure you give them a stop command after you fire them off..

There are tags to fix this IIRC.

Spring RTS Engine

EE version 0.173 Final (no more stuffs)