Question for Caydr and other stuff

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 31 Oct 2006, 18:59

This is a pretty funny thread

I don't know what caused felix to make this thread (there isnt any post he made about mavs in the AA thread from what i've seen)

All i ever see is people moaning about AA in threads an the lobby, be they EE players, XTA players or whatever. It's constant, you can pretty much gaurantee some sort of anti AA thread everyweek, yet you don't see any for EE, XTA or anyother mod.

Granted, sometimes people argue in the lobby, but that usually consists of people from all sides saying things like "EE is teh bestz! AA suckz0rs! and "Noes! j00 ar wrng!! AA rulEz!". Things like that are always said, by everyone.

What pisses me off there are the same usual people who jump on threads like this and moan about AA, when it is infact they themselves that cause all these problems over a complete non issue. Just look back over some of the old threads and on smoths forums and you'll see who i mean. The only reason im typing this now is because the usual suspects have made a big fuss as usual over a non issue.

Caydr even made a concerted effort to get people to play other mods with his mod pack thing and yet all he got was flamed. And if you DID read the AA thread, you'd see that anyone who posts stupid ideas/changes gets flamed or ignored not just EE fanboys or people who dislike the mod, but ofc it dosent happen too often to experianced players because they know what they're talking about...

The exact same thing happens in the two EE threads.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 31 Oct 2006, 19:01

What EE threads..?

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 31 Oct 2006, 19:01

I just thought it was funny, but okay.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 31 Oct 2006, 19:02

you did.. well guess what...

ITS NOT.. Internets Serious Business

Acidd_UK · Post by **Acidd_UK** » 31 Oct 2006, 19:59

I *think* (not checked the timing) that this is a response to a comedy discussion that some of [tN] had in a game room with Felix the other night...

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 31 Oct 2006, 20:03

Yes, Felix's claim that each and every AA release should change only one thing was quite amusing.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 31 Oct 2006, 21:11

Cabbage, still missing the point. This has nothing to do with AA or Caydr, and all to do with the people surrounding the mod, impeding progress or indeed thought. I know, having argued with you and alongside you over points on that mod that you've encountered the worthless voice of the uninformed masses.

And, for El Cap's benefit, Felix was probably joking about the one change at a time. Developers of any product know that you change groups of things, small groups, test - and then change more things, progressively.

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 31 Oct 2006, 21:47

neddiedrow wrote:And, for El Cap's benefit, Felix was probably joking about the one change at a time. Developers of any product know that you change groups of things, small groups, test - and then change more things, progressively.

If he was joking, he was doing a very bad job of it. His argument was that the "tried, true and proven" method of balancing is change one thing at a time. Caydr releases betas for testing and doesn't make massive, sweeping changes for the most part. The thing is that claiming he doesn't know how to balance a mod when there are very few mods that come close to the balance achieved in AA seems a bit silly.

Regarding Felix's specific question about Mavs, they probably should lose their auto-regen, or at least have it nerfed, IMHO, but they're not game imbalancing to the point that they're the only things made.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 31 Oct 2006, 23:48

I find it silly to comment on other mods balance when in fact there are very few mods to begin with, so saying very few mods come close to AAs balance means they pretty much all do since there are about 5 not in some form of beta at this time..

Its that kind of irritating statement that gets fanboys riled up, so just dont make it..

there are very few mods that come close to the balance achieved in AA

statements like that are exceedingly inflamitory, Spring is a small community, and IN that community not everyone agrees with that statement.. SO dont make statements like that your just provoking a hostile response and YOU know it.. mmmk..

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:04

Caydr's unwillingness to listen to anyone but his own fanboys is a major deterrant.

[Too true to be said without causing a major row.]

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:19

Fanboys?... He listened to me and I hardly ever pop in Spring and play AA, or come to his thread other than just seeing what people are arguing about this day, or the next...

But, then again, hmmmm

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:19

Guys, I didn't intend this as a "smash Caydr" thread... I pretty much play AA exclusively, unless there is by some amazing coincidence a NanoBlobs game open, or I'm testing 1944. I appreciate Caydr's work. I do not appreciate his claque.

I stand by my statement of only change one thing (or a small group of related things) at a time; however, I never said to only release one change at a time. At the moment, to an outside observer, it looks like there are many changes in numbers in each AA version with no apparent reason for the changes; it essentially looks like numbers are changed for the sake of changing numbers.

I don't venture into the AA thread because of the large numbers of fanboys who vocally hold the belief that AA is perfectly balanced already, but oddly enough have thought so since AA 1.5 and will continue to think so for every release from here on out. Also, the AA thread gets so many posts, most of which add nothing to the conversation, that it actually consists of work to keep up with what happens in it.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:22

I would like to say that the above statement does not neccessarily represent my views or the views of the EE superfriends, all rights reserved, void where prohibted, etc...

Yeah Forb is my one rabid attack fanboi...

GET EM!!

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:29

Argh, this is insane. People here are way, way way WAY too sensitive. About everthing. I mean the actually bad sentiments flying around are pretty mild, especially since the mods took a more active role yet everyone acts like the slightest hint of an opinion for or against a mod or feature is a personal insult. Seriously everyone (I'm trying to be fair here) needs to relax a bit

Just to be clear AA rocks, as does EE, Gundamn SWTA and Spring1944. I also wish there was more variety of mods and maps played on the server.

Ok you can carry on flaming now

(runs away)

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:32

I dont think thats so.. but somewhere along the line this became a competition..

I dislike..

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 01 Nov 2006, 00:48

Fanger wrote:I dont think thats so.. but somewhere along the line this became a competition..

I dislike..

Well, it is sort of a competition between mods, simply because it takes a significant investment of time to learn a new mod.

This is why you see nearly everyone playing AA nowadays, with only a relatively small group of "elite" players playing EE, and the odd game of something else because somebody wanted to try something new. If I wanted to learn how to play EE, for example, it would probably take me 2-3 games just to figure out what everything does and what they are generally used for, and another 3-5 games to figure out some basic strategies for the mod. That's up to 8 hours of gaming during which I'm even more ineffective than usual and I'm sort of clueless as to how to even come close to winning in EE.

Hence, I stick with AA. I already know how to play it.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 01 Nov 2006, 01:03

Felix the Cat wrote:
Fanger wrote:I dont think thats so.. but somewhere along the line this became a competition..

I dislike..
Well, it is sort of a competition between mods, simply because it takes a significant investment of time to learn a new mod.

This is why you see nearly everyone playing AA nowadays, with only a relatively small group of "elite" players playing EE, and the odd game of something else because somebody wanted to try something new. If I wanted to learn how to play EE, for example, it would probably take me 2-3 games just to figure out what everything does and what they are generally used for, and another 3-5 games to figure out some basic strategies for the mod. That's up to 8 hours of gaming during which I'm even more ineffective than usual and I'm sort of clueless as to how to even come close to winning in EE.

Hence, I stick with AA. I already know how to play it.

Heh, it's a lot easier to learn than that. The game is very straightforward. 1 game should be enough to learn ya

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 01 Nov 2006, 01:04

I picked it up instantly, but my family considers me the smartest >.>

Lippy · Post by **Lippy** » 01 Nov 2006, 01:42

Lol i think Felix the Cat is probably referring, at least in part, to my posts defending the balance of mavs many times e.g. http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewt ... &start=840

BTW that doesn't mean that i worship Caydr :p. In fact I've "complained" about many many things : e.g Fatboys/crawling bombs/snipers in pre 2.21 all of which he changed. All credit to Caydr for actually listening to people and responding.

But perfect balance is a subjective matter (maths & statistics can only go so far) and he will never be able to satisfy every1's needs.

EDIT: lol at last sentence...doesn't sound right..

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 01 Nov 2006, 03:11

Felix the Cat wrote:
Fanger wrote:I dont think thats so.. but somewhere along the line this became a competition..

I dislike..
Well, it is sort of a competition between mods, simply because it takes a significant investment of time to learn a new mod.

This is why you see nearly everyone playing AA nowadays, with only a relatively small group of "elite" players playing EE, and the odd game of something else because somebody wanted to try something new. If I wanted to learn how to play EE, for example, it would probably take me 2-3 games just to figure out what everything does and what they are generally used for, and another 3-5 games to figure out some basic strategies for the mod. That's up to 8 hours of gaming during which I'm even more ineffective than usual and I'm sort of clueless as to how to even come close to winning in EE.

Hence, I stick with AA. I already know how to play it.

I would like to take exception to that statement as well... By the end of my first game I was already an E&E player, not that good of one, mind you, but I understood how it rolled.

Spring RTS Engine

Question for Caydr and other stuff