Why so little map variety?

Molloy · Post by **Molloy** » 31 Aug 2006, 15:11

People host the same bloody maps over and over and over.

In Total Annihilation it was bad that nobody played any third party maps. But there were still about 15 different maps that got played all the time. And mabe another 20 that got played a fair bit as well.

In Spring its constantly Speedmetal, Greenfields, Altored Divide and maybe Small Supreme Battlefield.

I wouldn't even care if it was something like Green Comet that got played all the time. At least it isn't a choke point map so you have more strategic options, and each game doesn't mirror the last one. There's a little variety.

It's killing me that I can't host my own games. Tried opening the correct port. Tried opening all my ports. Still no joy. I can host Total Annihilation games fine though.

AF · Post by AF » 31 Aug 2006, 15:19

Turn on holepunching when you host games, and it's 8452 UDP.

I must disagree here, although those maps are played a lot they're not played exclusively, most hosts have at last 50 maps of varying types or are willing to download more.

Persh · Post by **Persh** » 31 Aug 2006, 16:14

Using the FireFox extension DownThemAll, I dl'ed every single map off of ta-spring.com/maps/. TWICE. Once for each computer. And yet, so many of them either play or look like crap.

jackalope · Post by **jackalope** » 31 Aug 2006, 16:53

I have to completely agree with molloy on this one. Despite AA being the most popular mod for spring, it can be hard to find a game that is not on the maps mentioned above, even when player count is at its peak.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 31 Aug 2006, 18:44

I'll suggest a few...

Battle for PlanetXVII-v01.sd7

Canyon Trio v3: Canyon Wasteland-v02, Vegan Canyon-v02, Flooded Canyons-v3

Canyon_Redux-v01

County_Crossing v03

Deserted_Gully-v05

Divided_Shores-v03.sdz

Evergreen_Haven-v03.sd7

Foothill Basin-v02

Foothills-v08.sd7

Glacier Pass

Glacier_Plateau-v03.sd7 and Tidewater Glacier v01

Greenheaven-v05.sd7

Koth-v03.sd7

Okiriver_Remake-v01

Parched_Mesa-v04.sd7

Pathways-v04.sd7

Placid_Stream-v03

Shore2Shore_Remake-v01

The_Wastes-v02.sd7

Whakamutunga_Riri-v04.sd7 and Resting_Place-v04.sd7

Winter_Wonderland-v01

Courtyard-v01.sd7 [20x20]

Hills and Valleys v9

Long_Division-v01.sd7

Silt_Outcropping-v01.sd7

Wishing_Well-v01.sd7

Plateau Divide [32 x 16]

Martian Battlegrounds

Red Triangle Remake

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 31 Aug 2006, 19:32

Molloy, i know that normally, myself, any of the other SmuGs, and a lot of PROs are always ready to 1v1 or play a good game on a non-standard map; just poke us and im sure we'll be happy to "throw down", as it were

However, most of these days we're either playing War Evo or some crazy shit settings and SPeedMEtal games (or as in my and Nixa's case) not playing at all; i know a lot of us are just kinda burned out at the moment on SPring

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 31 Aug 2006, 19:40

It is true that the problem is not lack of quality maps, it is lack of games on quality maps. If your looking for a 1v1 on a decent map you could ask some people in #league for a game. That would probably yield better players than a request in #main.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 31 Aug 2006, 19:41

The River Dale pack is really good too, I love those maps.

Weaver · Post by **Weaver** » 31 Aug 2006, 21:31

Not easy to force people to try different maps, but if there was ever a ladder, maybe you could offer more points for wins on maps that get played less often?

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 31 Aug 2006, 21:42

LOL at weavers suggestion
LOL at the topic
LOL
LOL
LOL
so little variety?
arctic maps
temperate maps
sea maps
land maps
continental maps
weird formations of rock things map (SSB)
volcano maps
weird maps (Picassos work is simply stunning even if only playable in mods like NB)
metal maps
grass maps
ugly maps
pretty maps
normal metal distribution
OTA style
'seams' of metal
maps with hills
maps with small hills
maps with no hills
maps with lakes
maps with oceans
maps describing the entire world
maps of egypt
maps of OTA maps
maps of newness
maps of wootness
maps of fail
maps of lose
there is PLENTY of maps
they are played fairly often too (by the better players generally, noobs have no taste)
they are made and they are played, hell you could even rate them back at FU
christ LOL

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 31 Aug 2006, 21:51

Molloy isnt saying not enough map variety; he's saying there's not enough played map variety.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 31 Aug 2006, 23:20

LOL
you see this is how it is
people play maps they like lol
i mean how fucked up is that
they even sometimes think that a certain difference in gameplay on some maps and try to perfect it lol
i mean its not like there is a massive amount of maps they could play if they like lol
lol
lol
lol

BlackLiger · Post by **BlackLiger** » 31 Aug 2006, 23:25

Min3mat, stop acting like an idiot, please. You're giving me a headache.

LOrDo · Post by **LOrDo** » 01 Sep 2006, 00:32

Min3 quit trolling the thread.
There arent any new maps played because the spring community dosn't WANT new maps, they just want to play the same shit over and over again.
If someone actually comes up with somthing new and original, this community instantly pisses all over it and calls it crap. "It cant be diffrent, it wont work if its diffrent!" The majority of maps made here are a flat base, with some hills, which we have way to much of already.
Now of course, the swarm of denial posts saying "No we dont stfu noob!" will come. But this community really needs to open its mind.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 01 Sep 2006, 04:40

Nonsense. Those maps are only popular for the large 3v3+ games. For smaller games I see a lot of other maps - hell, start a Small Divide 1v1 and I guarantee you won't wait longer than 5 minutes for a partner. Likewise, a lot of people are playing Moon2QO and Centerrock. And if any of the hardcore clanners are on they'll kick your ass on any of the OTA-styled maps like GreenHaven. And Castles is only a chokepoint map in the late-game - I've clobbered countless noobs who thought they were secure in their little castle while I was exploiting the map and crushed them under the force of a massive economy.

The problem is that, especially in AA, Spring maps are really hard to learn. You never know what hidden tricks a map has for you - like those vehicle-accessible paths through the craters in CometCatcher, or the water in Castles, or the way that kbots can climb the hill in smalldivide, or the way that all-terrain bots cant climb the hill in HellsPass. Because of maps not being 100% clear to look at, plus there being so many just-plain-bad maps that people may foist on you, finally, combined with the fact that the map is a huge download and pathing is a long wait - there's a fscktonne of disincentive to try new map.

Imho, maps should be _clear_ for whatever mod you're making. Make the textures on hills that vehicles can scale look different from the hills that kbots can scale, which should look different from the hills that only allterrains can scale. Make areas that you can build on (slope < 10) look different from areas you can't. And there's no excuse for invisible metal - if you have invisible metal, I switch to F4 mode and never turn it off, and all your hard work texturing goes to waste.

Mappers are so friggin' concerned about how sexy their maps look that they forget how _informative_ they are.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 01 Sep 2006, 04:52

F2 for the win, Pxtl.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 01 Sep 2006, 05:02

Decimator wrote:F2 for the win, Pxtl.

Searching Wiki for F2...

searching...

can't find anything. Isn't it just an elevation-coloured version of the map? Or is it slope-coloured.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 01 Sep 2006, 05:03

tbh this thread is stupid, min3mat may be a bit blunt, but hes spot on

I don't see any problem, if a map works with a mod, it gets played. simple.

OFC some maps get played more then others, but pretty much any decent map gets played.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 01 Sep 2006, 05:56

Cabbage and min3mat have a point.

However, I imagine that most maps don't get played because you have to dredge through tons of crap to find the good ones.

It might be a good idea to seperate maps on Unknown files and kin according to who made the map.

THerefore if you prefer my style, you can see all my maps in one spot.

If you like hrmph's style you can look through all of his, etc, etc.

However due to some odd reason it will probably never happen.

BTW this is the info that f2 shows you. Whatever unit you have selected (In this case an insty) cannot travel in the areas marked in RED, Yellow can be traveled but much slower, green = full speed ahead cap'n.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 01 Sep 2006, 06:51

F2 is one of the most useful ingame commands for a skilled or interested player.

Spring RTS Engine

Why so little map variety?

Why so little map variety?