Contest: Defensive Structure - Page 11

Contest: Defensive Structure

Share and discuss visual creations and creation practices like texturing, modelling and musing on the meaning of life.

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Keithus
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Joined: 06 Oct 2006, 05:59

Post by Keithus »

I just dont know what to do with my model anymore; so I am just going to go ahead an UV map it.

I posted earlier that I was out of ideas what to do but I believe it was throughly missed :? . However what I said in that post still stands, I still want some suggestions with what to do to it.

Oh yea, not sure how to effectivly UV map the tri gun part. Some suggestions with that would be great aswell.
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm »

Hi, when are you actully goona do teh final judgement? Only if we could have the weekend (read, i need teh weekend :wink: ) to finish taht would be swell, I have compleatly re made my model, but need to do a few last things, like the gun (curently its all legs and doors...)

aGorm
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Argh
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

I can give you until Saturday night. After that, I will need to wrap the contest up, so that I can skin/script the winning entry(s) and move on to the next contest-like announcement that I'm going to make :-)
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Keithus
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Post by Keithus »

*Sigh* I do believe all my previous cries for inspiration were missed.
I just arent sure how to make it look more mechanical while keeping the rounded form. Perhaps a fan in the centre of the base to blow upwards? Its a little too late now though.

This is the same old version with a UV map. It should be noted that I'm not sure its UV mapped the way you'd like as UV mapping comes down to textureing preferance style. It is hopefully layed out well enough to make sense. If needed I can provide a pre mirrored version for easier UV manipulation.

.OBJ
http://dl027.filefactory.com/dl/f/8af8f ... ee5f4a19f/

Might be worth noting that it doesnt have those nice sharp edges, just not sure how to do that with wings yet so that it keeps them when transfered to .OBJ (other than completly seperating an object with loop cut).
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Maelstrom
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Post by Maelstrom »

Oh and I'd like to mention that while my model might not have propper welding as per the UV map (I didnt know thats how you were ment to weld when I UV'd it), the .wings version of it has all its edgs set hard/soft, so you could base your new UV map off that if it needs reskinning to weld it correctly.
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Keithus
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Post by Keithus »

Same as maelstrom said for mine......
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm »

Image

Well, I finished remodleing, (But its not UV mapped, not because i can't, but because I suspect we would both totaly disagree on how it should be mapped. Plus you seem to know what you want to do with welding and such, you'd prob re do it anyway!)

The file has 3 legs, 3 doors missing, because there just duplications of each other.

Its got a new big gun to... :-)

Heres the wings and obj files.

http://www.onebob.co.uk/darren/screens/popup2.obj
http://www.onebob.co.uk/darren/screens/popup2.wings

Hope you like!

aGorm
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Snipawolf
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005, 01:49

Post by Snipawolf »

Not fair, I can't even get on Wings3D...

:cry:

I'll try underclocking my card a whole fifty percent to see if it still won't freeze... :(

PS: Anybody in the dark should go here.
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm »

Oh, BTW mine should come to 1408 tris if you add in teh extra legs and doors...

aGorm
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rattle
Damned Developer
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Post by rattle »

Somehow I still like yours the most even though I hate spiders (arachnophobia for the win).
The gun could need some changes IMO. Perhaps an asymmetrical layout and a large caliber rotary cannon with 2 or 3 barrels OR some huge artillery system, i.e. the current gun just way bigger. This just remembered me of some artillery thing from Zoids (imperial somewhat spider with a huge cannon on it's back).

edit:
Like that...
Image
Image

BTW you'll have an easier time making screenshots when you disable the xyz axis and ground grid (top right icons). PS' automatic crop functions can do the rest after cutting the GUI parts away.
Last edited by rattle on 10 Dec 2006, 02:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Snipawolf
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Post by Snipawolf »

Like this Death Stinger I made :P (And wish I kept the file so I coulda remade it, higher polygonal and more like the actual one...)

(this was my second model, I shoulda kept it anyways as a keep sake :cry: )

Image

Edit: I made myself unhappy by coming on this topic, it reminds me of my current inability to model :cry:
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Noruas
XTA Developer
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Post by Noruas »

Edit: I made myself unhappy by coming on this topic, it reminds me of my current inability to model Crying or Very sad
*Sniff* Better then my.... box *cuts wrist where main vein is*
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

We have a problem, Houston.

I was going to do the final uv-map tests, screenshots, etc., and announce the winners... except for one wee little issue: several contestants have not put up the model files in OBJ format, as requested. It's kind've hard to judge models I can't see the wires on, let alone paint the winner ;)

You know who you are (<cough> Mr. D., Crampage and probably others). If you want to be part of the final judging round, you have 24 hours to get me links to files ;)

Meanwhile... let's look at some shots of current entries and their uvmaps....
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm »

Just to remide you mine aint maped mate... but if you want I could do so thisevening while these lazy people put there moddels up. :-)

aGorm
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Well, the results may surprise everybody. Since certain people haven't, ah, turned in their work yet ;) I am giving everybody who has current entries in the contest another 24 hours to revamp, if they so choose.

Right now, the clear winner, on overall points, is a very close race between... and yes, this was a surprise even to me...

Maelstrom and Keithus. Why? Because, out've all of the entries, they picked up points and didn't lose any.


Let's review the rules. Any art contest is, let's be real, unfair and ultimately subjective. I make no bones about making artistic judgements on a "do I like this, does it fit NanoBlobs's weird aesthetic" basis. However, technical modeling was a big part of judging:
1. Polycount must be lower than 2000. 2000 instead of 1000, because this will be a big, important structure in NB, and it should be impressively detailed.

2. It must be futuristic in design.

3. It should use the concepts of mirroring and other techniques to make it easy to skin.

4. I am the sole judge of the winning entry. This is the points system I will use:

A. Keeping the number of triangles in the mesh below 1900 is worth 1 point. Keeping it below 1750 is worth 2. Do not submit models with square faces, and I will not accept entries with polycounts over 2000.

B. Keeping the number of moving parts below 10, or designing the moving parts so they will be easily animated (i.e., making good use of rest positioning) is worth 1 point. I will be flexible, if it was well thought out.

C. Overall style is worth 5 points.

D. If it is uv-mapped, you get 2 points. I will paint the skin.

Let's look at the four top contenders:

ImageImage

2 for polycount.
1 for uvmap.
1 for mechanical simplicity and obvious design.
3.5 for overall style, flair, ingenuity, futuristic feel and keeping with the NanoBlobs aesthetics of 1930's Art Deco design.

Total Score: 7.5

3 points were awarded for the design, greebling, and attention to overall craft. 1 point was awarded for special technical distinction, then half a point was subtracted for a technical flaw that I feel was avoidable.

Overall rating: the model is, by far, the most clean entry I looked at, in terms of the overall mesh. No smoothing, welding, or other blemishes. It's damn near flawlessly clean. I did not have to weld/split/reorder the mesh to have it meet my standards, which are (usually, when I'm not being lazy) very high. That shot on the left was right after importing. I was like, "sweet, I don't have to fix this at all".

I know that may not impress everybody, but it says a lot about Keithus's desire to actually make a go of it- that and the revisions and calls for critique. I didn't step in with ideas, because frankly, after jinxing Rattle I felt like I probably wasn't helping by kibbitzing and throwing out visual puns ;)

Keithus, to score a perfect 10, you'd have to find 1.5 more points of overall "cool". What makes that happen is very arguable, given your concept- do you add mechanicals that animate to suggest the opening sequence... some greebles that could suggest how it keeps stable/turns while in mid-air, or is it something else entirely? I'd meditate on it, go study some of these visual references I posted links to earlier, and do some drawings. I know you have it in you.

Lastly, this model lost a point because while it is uvmapped, and doesn't have much distortion, the map has lots of gaps, wastes a lot of space, and is generally laid out pretty poorly for skinning. It'd be a very tough model to work with, although I can certainly get it done.

Here's a shot of Keithus's uvmap:

Image

ImageImage

2 for polycount.
1.5 for uvmap.
0.5 for mechanical simplicity and obvious design.
3.5 for overall style, flair, ingenuity, futuristic feel and keeping with the NanoBlobs aesthetics of 1930's Art Deco design.

Total Score: 7.5

Maelstrom's entry, at first glance, wasn't my first choice for a strong contender, but when I actually looked at the model under the microscope, it rapidly grew on me.

While its steampunk imaginings are somewhat at odds with the overall blend of 30's pulp sci-fi and 70's anime schlock that is the artistic heart of NanoBlobs, it's still a very well-made model. It required welding/splitting to clean it up, but the resulting model, as you can see, is very clean, and has hardly any welding flaws.

I took off half a point, because the mechanical issues are a bit more difficult than they first appear. Firstly, the gears need to turn PERFECTLY, which I strongly suspect will be quite a trick. Secondly, if the gun is at a 45-degree angle, it will clip into the base a bit. Minor, but hey, this is a contest ;)

On the aesthetic side... the square barrel... I can't really explain it without going into mushy language... but it just doesn't do it for me. A sloped, irregular pentagon or a triangle is much more interesting than a simple elongated cube.

On the other hand, the uvmap for this thing is pretty good. While it could've used far more mirroring, and has a couple of places where it is projecting through things that I would choose to emphasize as detail areas, it is laid out in a very straightforward fashion, and it's "duh" obvious what object cross-section I'm staring at. And there is no noticeable distortion on any parts that actually matter.

A solid entry, with a lot of potential. Just doesn't have perfect 10 quality and finish yet. The gears were inspired- the gun feels less so.

Here's Maelstrom's uvmap:

Image

ImageImage

2.0 for polycount.
0 for uvmap.
0.5 for mechanical simplicity and obvious design.
3.5 for overall style, flair, ingenuity, futuristic feel and keeping with the NanoBlobs aesthetics of 1930's Art Deco design.

Total Score: 6.0

aGorm's entry scores very high on style, then loses a major chunk for not having a uvmap. Since even a fairly simplistic uvmap would gain this model the prize, I'm going to be interested in seeing how this works out.

This is really a brilliant entry, from a mechanical and design standpoint. Getting it to actually work in Spring would be a little painful, but not too bad. Getting it to work really convincingly... meh, a little harder, but still doable. Watching people's first reactions to a stealthed turret that looks like an evil spider-god when emerging to smite my foes... priceless :-)

This model required to be cleaned/split, but after splitting, it's nearly flawless, and would look just fine in Spring.

Overall, I like this entry, and I feel like it really captured the essence of my vague directives about coming up with something innovative but not "bleah, too weird", which is where I'm trying to steer NanoBlob's art style. With a uvmap that was easy to work with, it would probably be the strongest contender, in terms of bringing everything together.

To reach perfect 10 status, it'd have to make even more use of mirroring (hint: the "base" could be divided into 4 pieces, just like everything else), have a uvmap, and come with a series of poses, so that Argh doesn't have to burn his brain out doing the initial animation run (cleanup and believability are, of course, just one of those things).

ImageImage

2.0 for polycount.
0 for uvmap.
1.0 for mechanical simplicity and obvious design.
3.0 for overall style, flair, ingenuity, futuristic feel and keeping with the NanoBlobs aesthetics of 1930's Art Deco design.

Total Score: 6.0

Dash's entry is pretty darn sexy. I mean, how can you not like something with 4 guns?

However, even after 3 revisions, it still just doesn't feel right. The guns are referencing Star Wars. They're really cool, but they just don't quite mesh as well as I'd like. And while I look forward to the challenge of making that tower believable with an animation, I still feel like there's something more substantial out there that might work better.

In addition, this was the only model I looked at which still has some (minor) welding issues even after being split.

And it has, by a long shot, the highest polycount of all the entries. It just barely made the cut.

To get a perfect 10, I'd say drop the base and the tower and replace them with something solid and straightforward- something that says, "armored and gosh-darn heavy", with a little greebling to maybe suggest ablative armor (like the stand-off plates on the Springer or that silly mockup I threw out much earlier). I want something that should have rivets and thick plates of uber-armor. And I'd go ahead and lose the holes on the barrels of the guns (to save on polycount- no point when they'd be 2 pixels wide on-screen 99% of the time), shorten the barrels and emphasize them a bit to suggest water-cooling jackets or something suitably old-skool, and generally make this look a bit less like a sleek appliance of Dooooom and more like a rusty-four gun machinegun ala WWII.

And a uvmap, even a fairly crappy one, is a must.
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aGorm
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Post by aGorm »

Just for you Argh... a UVed version!!

http://www.onebob.co.uk/darren/screens/popup2UV.obj

Hope that helps. Also i took your advice and mirrod the base (ratehr creativly in a kinda diaganol...)

This is probable the most complex UV map I've done!

(PS I hope like hell the UV map is exported with the obj, I assume it is but I always do 3ds to get into upspring....)

aGorm

:::EDIT::: Hot dam you'll still have to split it cause i cant see mt o figure a way to export from wings with it split... unless im missing somthing.
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Keithus
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Post by Keithus »

Argh wrote:
1 point was awarded for special technical distinction, then half a point was subtracted for a technical flaw that I feel was avoidable.
Outa interest what was avoidable? I have an idea what it could be but I cant be sure what you mean and if you mean what I think you mean it would require a complete remodel to fix it. My goodness that was a crazy sentance.

Does this mean we get another extention period to refine our designs?
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

@aGorm:

I'll take a look tonight, and (if possible) I will cut it up.

@Keithus:

Basically, if I'm being very harsh (keep that in mind) I'd say that:

1. The body of the model should be mapped in two distinct parts: a top cap area, and a lower part done with a cylindrical map. Basically, the model is fine, but the uvmap is not going to be at all easy to work with, and as you can see, if you look at the screenshot, it wastes a LOT of space. Ideally... any areas where you can get away with it, on a rounded object, should be mirrored, so that you only have to set up the maps for a very small area on the model, and can, with the space you've saved, thus lavish great amounts of detail onto the final product.

2. Having looked at the wires, I'd say that I could probably cut the polycount in half, and still have it convey the same feel in the game engine. For example, that spheroid in the center of the triangular depression could lose a lot of tris, and still look OK. The exterior of the body doesn't take enough advantage of welding, I think, and it could be modeled a little more harshly and still look all right- Spring's auto-welding is pretty darn forgiving, and makes a lot of things look far better than you'd expect them too.

Instead of just acting as a critic, though, I should probably put my time where my mouth is and remodel it to meet my specifications. Given that I have a perfect-scale model to work from, I can probably redo this in half an hour, so I should probably just be non-lazy and do so. A lot of what I'm saying will be easier to convey with pictures showing how I loft the model in Rhino3D- which, while it is a different process than building from primatives in Wings, can still have the same results.

And yes, if everybody's ok with it, I see no reason not to give everybody a little more time- that's why I awarded a 24-hour grace period for the contestants, given that I still don't have two of the entries yet ;) So if you want to do a final revision, by all means. Personally, I think if you just reworked the uvmap so that it was a lot less funky, it'd be a solid contender.
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Keithus
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Post by Keithus »

Wicked, only problem is wings cant sphereical map.
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Tru dat. Go get UVMapper Classic, which is freeware and doesn't suck. While Wings does a great job unfolding irregular, closed surfaces, it does a terrible job with open ones and it lacks a lot of options that can greatly improve the efficiency of your maps.
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