Model Competition 0001 - Small Fighter/gunship/bomber - Page 4

Model Competition 0001 - Small Fighter/gunship/bomber

Share and discuss visual creations and creation practices like texturing, modelling and musing on the meaning of life.

Moderators: MR.D, Moderators

User avatar
rattle
Damned Developer
Posts: 8278
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 13:15

Post by rattle »

Image
Had another go at it... not your average small fighter/bomber... turned out to be more like a well armed support role VTOL. The turret thing is supposed to be an artillery/popup rocket launcher combination...

Got 1010 tris after tesselating, it's untesselated atm. There's not much I can (or rather want to do) about the 10 tris :P
.obj/.wings
User avatar
MR.D
Posts: 1527
Joined: 06 Aug 2005, 13:15

Post by MR.D »

Here is my 2nd attempt at a Heavy bomber.

Unfolding design, with internal bombay.

974 faces/triangles.

Here is the link for a quick animation of the bomber.
http://mrd.str8-6.com/files/bombermovie.zip

Expanded view of all perspectives.
http://mrd.str8-6.com/files/Garg.jpg

Image
User avatar
Argh
Posts: 10920
Joined: 21 Feb 2005, 03:38

Post by Argh »

Okie doke, quick critiques:

@Lathan: Overall, brilliant effort. A+ for style and feel. A- for modeling overall. Gripes are very minor, but fairly important if you're trying to reach AAA status:

1. The cockpit and the gold "stripes" should be properly done with the skin, not the model itself, given that Spring doesn't (yet) support translucency. They're a waste of polygons.

2. I am forced to agree that the grille should be a flat face with a texture depicting the louvers. Didja see that guy who posted up his Dune wind-collectors? Now that is how to make a flat face look 3D! I did a very similar thing with the Wolf:

Image

As you can hopefully see, that back section is 6 triangles, but the texture makes it come alive. Not the most expertly-done thing ever- personally, I liked that Dune wind-catcher more, but you get the idea. Waste not, want not ;)

3. In the future, pay especial attention to mirroring everything possible, for maximum ease of skinning. Anything that has two halves should be split perfectly down the middle whenever possible. It's even worth extra triangles on center bitz, because it saves soooo much time.

Overall though, very nice work- it sings, it dances, it kills bombers 8)

@Rattle:

Well, you get points for pure originality. However, you lose lots of points for making a design that looks, for lack of a diplomatic way of putting it... completely impractical. Those rear fins look heavy, and would serve no real aerodynamic purpose, unless physics are completely alien in your universe. The turret would just interrupt proper airflow- look at turrets for WWII planes- even the sticky-outy ones were usually grafted onto the airframes with at least some attention paid to airflow, and nobody these days would build planes like they did back then, cool-looking as they are. And the turbines look undersized and have no good path for airflow- there are a bunch of good reasons that all RL designs featuring this kind've thing either have the fans on the wingtips, or pass straight through the body. Basically, I really like that you felt free to give us something really wild- now make it believeable.

@MR.D: That's a pretty solid, competant effort. Like Lathan, you need to avoid using seperate pieces for stuff like windshields. The body is extremely well-made, technically speaking, even if I have a few quibbiles with the overall design, and made good use of box-modeling and mirroring. Personally, I think you should lose the fins on the rear- they look superflous- and I'd like to see it with a longer, slightly-drooping nose, giving it a more aggressive, supersonic feel, and I think that the turbines should be made flush with the wings, instead of bulging. IRL, you never see designs like this, because you've basically ruined the airlfow over much of the wing by distorting the geometry. There are good reasons why planes generally have their engines outside the wings on pylons, or built into the body. In your case, I'd move the bulge down until it's flush, making the top surface smooth and believable, but I'd also move the rest of it down, preserving the holes for the turbofans so that you don't have to remodel them.



Pretty cool stuff, guys.
IMSabbel
Posts: 747
Joined: 30 Jul 2005, 13:29

Post by IMSabbel »

rattle wrote:Image
Had another go at it... not your average small fighter/bomber... turned out to be more like a well armed support role VTOL. The turret thing is supposed to be an artillery/popup rocket launcher combination...

Got 1010 tris after tesselating, it's untesselated atm. There's not much I can (or rather want to do) about the 10 tris :P
.obj/.wings
You can save 16 polygons by removing the small ring before the cone section of the small missiles (?) on the torret.
They are too small to be really visible in that detail anyway.
User avatar
rattle
Damned Developer
Posts: 8278
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 13:15

Post by rattle »

That small ring is "broader" on the inside... but I guess you wont notice that unless you pause in a moment where it fires it's rockets
Image

to Argh: I knew that I failed at creating a fast moving bomber aircraft once I was done... :) however the fans were only intended for stabilization, strafing and vertical takeoff/landing, it's got an engine in the back for propulsion. But I gotta agree, the tail fins really need to be improved.
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

the intake vents, I know I can simplify them, I was gonna give it a shot without doing so first.. they are a total of 48 faces without simplifying I could save 48 by deleting them and moving the backfacecull to the front of the inlet...

the cockpit, is the model, it IS handled by skin, I just detached the facets for the purpose of showing a different "color" on those faces to "emulate" a true cockpit.

The brackets: are serving a purpose.. though small.. the geometry was VERY WEAK at the joints to the fuselage.. please open the file and inspect before you assume the brackets are meerly an extra set of polygons.. though, it "can" be done with texture.. I'm trying to make the model very pretty.. and from what I've seen, the extra 32 polys these brackets add.. isn't too bad.

screenie of the brackets and fuselage mix...
Image

thanks for the critique argh, I've found a few small faces to kill and fixed a few errors... there was a crack in each wing where the geometry was improper, I fixed that (added 2 polys) and found 6 polys to remove.. all in all, its 4 polys less, and correct geometry now...

also, the obj exporter was giving errors on the geometry around the turbofans in the wings and on the weapon geometry (where it was simply a 2d face and flipped as a 2d face on the other side) the exporter was seeing (some to most) of them as "duplicate" faces and deleting them... and thus exporting a 963 face model instead... urgh

I uploaded it as a 3ds so that you guys that REALLY inspect models, can see that its correct.

I did check the model with upspring, and exported as a s3o.. it still works properlly. :wink:

but yeah, all in all, thanks for the critique argh...

there's a few points on the UV map that need addressing to make the UV map "perfect" but yeah, thats a whole new project... maybe I'll swing a hammer at it friday evening or something...
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

Mr. D... I REALLY like the way your engines and wings interact.. maybe the engines are a bit oversized though...

my few comments..

1- do you REALLY need that many polys on the cockpit?? might wanna add "extras" elsewhere

2- the engine tubofans... don't turbine engines only have 1 LARGE fan on the intake? and then thurst on the exhaust??

Image

thus you can remove the rear fan, and replace it with some kinda conical tube thing.. this will free up LOTS of polys, make animations less of scripting hell, and even make it look more "real"

3- I'd make the bulges on the engines less HUGE and more "noticeable but not obtrusive"

4- I'd make the wings themselves longer, even when pulled inside the plane..

5- the fuselage around the wings where they are pulled back inside.. consider modeling the "hole" they are pulled into, even if it means just pulling the verticies inside the fuselage where they connect... it'll look less like the wings are fabricated as they animate...

and by the way, I like the animation stuff.. kicks the crap outta my planes animation ability... :wink:

I might have to seperate some fins, flaps, and alerons... etc.. and make mine animate to keep up...

good work!

Rattle, the rear, lower, wings.. make them about 4x as big.. and strech them WIDER not down.. they will look more like "wings"...

the fans.. I have no idea.. they do look a bit out of place.. hell mine do too.. but who knows, this is a videogame..

the turret, as argh said, simply, way too big, way too promienant.. (sp?)

the modular setup of the aircraft makes it look more like a spaceship than a fighter... but I dunno, who says we can't fly by "levitation"?? :-p

multiple wings and fins are fun!! cool...

but yeah, keep goin guys.. we have like 5 days before deadline..

I'm tweakin mine too :-)
Last edited by LathanStanley on 19 Sep 2006, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MR.D
Posts: 1527
Joined: 06 Aug 2005, 13:15

Post by MR.D »

Update on my model

Triangles went up to 988 due to cutting off the canopy as a seperate object and welding it in, did some of the tweaks you mentioned as well.

I'm leaving in the tail fins though, adds style.

I don't think that doing a 100% believable unit is really necessary as long as basic principles are there, gotta have room for style.

Thanks for the honest crit though Argh, I appreciate it.

I usually stick to modeling things that exist or resemble something in the real world, a fresh design of something never done before is hard for me to acomplish.

I havn't posted up any actual model files, I can export to .3ds but it unwelds the entire model for some reason and ruins the smoothing, I'll have to find a better way, all I can post up ATM is a .max file.

**Updated picture**
http://mrd.str8-6.com/files/Garg2-tweak.jpg

**Wire/phong**
http://mrd.str8-6.com/files/Garg2t-wire.jpg

**Edit** Lathan lol, you must have posted like 2 seconds before I did :D
thx for the crits too, I wanted to keep a stylised futuristic looking bomber. Something streamlined looking and kinda anime maybe too.

Reason I went with the fans is this, Spring doesn't seem to have afterburner effects that are noteworthy or that could be done an maintain performance and be optimal if there were alot of these in the air. I went with rear fans so that there would be movement showing, and thats as good as afterburners to me.

The 4 fans are actually only 2 objects seperated by some space, so the script would be simpler and not as complicated as one would think.
Last edited by MR.D on 19 Sep 2006, 13:59, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

ooooh that rear image brings up another point...

if your engines are on the wings? why an "inlet" or an "exhaust port" on the main fuselage?? :|

thats kinda confusing
User avatar
MR.D
Posts: 1527
Joined: 06 Aug 2005, 13:15

Post by MR.D »

flare/chaff dispenser?

or maybe if I'm lucky, rear defence ports :-)
User avatar
rattle
Damned Developer
Posts: 8278
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 13:15

Post by rattle »

Third try, non VTOL jet bomber this time... the rudder, wings and landing gear (to be added) are going to be movable. The wings are missing it's stopper function (to lock it when unfolded) but I'm not gonna add that :P
Don't mind the materials (colours) did this for convenience

Perspective, top, bottom
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage

.obj/.mtl
.wings


It's got 512 tris after tesselating. The remaining will get used up when I add weapons (bombs, air-to-air missiles, 27 mm fixed cannon) and landing gear. :)
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

looks like an F-15 (single tail, and small) crossed with a Mig (single engine) and a F-14 (moving wings) ... I'm very tired, too tired to review right now, I just finished 100% tuning my model, and ripping every last single mo'fo'in face off the sob I didn't need and cleaning every aspect of it up..

its down to 943 faces..

not to mention putting on a UV map.. :P

Fighter:

Image

UV MAP:

Image

and no, I did not remove the intake vent grille, or the wing binding brackets...

AND I added exhaust ports to the thrusters on the rear.. :twisted:

the 3ds file... I'm shy to put it up... someone is sooooo gonna steal this I only hope they give me credit when they do... :( but yeah... here for inspection and critique:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... cd1eb3c06d

any comments appreciated... (Ill defend my work.. I know... but your comments don't go unheard...believe me)
User avatar
rattle
Damned Developer
Posts: 8278
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 13:15

Post by rattle »

It's actually a Tornado produced by the Panavia GmbH for germany, the UK and italy. It was a combined project in the 80s, we took part in it to replace the broken Starfighter you americans sold us :P.
It's an allweather multi-role jet fighter/bomber, being used for air superiority, ground attacks and/or recon missions etc.

Oh and your model is very nice. How many years of experience do you have? 10? First time I made a "model" was using some broken 3d modeling thingy included with Corel Draw 6 (don't laugh :P) in 1996/7, dunno exactly when. But then again never touched 3d modeling again until recently...

I'll UV map mine as well once it's finished...


edit: There's an error in the cockpit section of your model. There's a lone triangle inside of it. Could be wings and 3ds though.
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

nope, its gotta be wings acting dumb... there's nothin there :P
User avatar
Snipawolf
Posts: 4357
Joined: 12 Dec 2005, 01:49

Post by Snipawolf »

Damn having a little brother, or not having a computer for myself.. Work on mine is halted due to the fact that my little brother is on the better computer, which has wings3d and all my mod files.. :(
User avatar
rattle
Damned Developer
Posts: 8278
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 13:15

Post by rattle »

Stuff him in a box and ship him to Timbuktu then :P. Computers and internets should be 21+ tbh :) (j/k)
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

YOU ARE HIS OLDER BROTHER!!!

that says enough right there... :roll:

use yer "I will ALWAYS PWN YOU!" older brother god given gift.. and tell him to get off :P
mongus
Posts: 1463
Joined: 15 Apr 2005, 18:52

Post by mongus »

[bad taste]

lathan... as its low speed (?) ship, make it more curved (from side view, like a hawk when its chasing) and ... as its kinda copter... mount, not missiles, but turrets, guns or lasers, at wings.

looks great.

e:thats the point.. its too big for a figther. Brawler sized =gunship.
and crow does not have turrets in the middle of the wing but at sides..

as it is, looks like heavy, strong, mid speed, .. almost a bomber.
:?:

still my favorite
[/bad taste]
Last edited by mongus on 19 Sep 2006, 23:51, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
LathanStanley
Posts: 1429
Joined: 20 Jun 2005, 05:16

Post by LathanStanley »

mongus wrote:[ignorance]

lathan... as its low speed (?) ship, make it more curved (from side view, like a hawk when its chasing) and ... as its kinda copter... mount, not missiles, but turrets, guns or lasers, at wings.

looks great.
[/ignorance]
I'm not making a friggin crow!

:P

its a fighter! like kinda brawler sized

fast! with friggin propellers! YEAH! :twisted:
User avatar
rattle
Damned Developer
Posts: 8278
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 13:15

Post by rattle »

A vulcan on it might turn out well (below the nose). But they eat polys :9
Post Reply

Return to “Art & Modelling”