smoth's junk. - Page 8

smoth's junk.

Share and discuss visual creations and creation practices like texturing, modelling and musing on the meaning of life.

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Funkencool
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by Funkencool » 17 Sep 2012, 20:40

bobthedinosaur wrote:Also land maybe if you tilt the aircraft so it is going down instead of up might help instead of being the same as fly but with a different color scheme?
Good idea but I think those are toggles(for air behavior, like if a plane should land when idle) so it's more like one icon with two states, on/off land/fly.
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smoth
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by smoth » 17 Sep 2012, 22:16

PicassoCT wrote:Finally.. the recycling icon... its missleading. If i would see that as a newb, i would assume that it means scrap the unit that has the button. I know its a hell of a concept to represent via one icon.. but .. this is not it..
in my projects reclaim only clears stuff so a wastebin icon is appropriate. If you are going to resell something, like a building, that is what the sell icon is for.

bobthedinosaur wrote:capture seems like a hard image to capture, your icons are awesome, but the imagery kind of makes me think of ground attack. what would be symbolic of capture though??
yeah it is a hard symbol to do, so I did that one because I thought, this thing is mine now.. and did that image. Probably not the best but it is better than the patrol, guard, stop and move icons. I am slowly improving them as I get time..
Funkencool wrote:
bobthedinosaur wrote:Also land maybe if you tilt the aircraft so it is going down instead of up might help instead of being the same as fly but with a different color scheme?
Good idea but I think those are toggles(for air behavior, like if a plane should land when idle) so it's more like one icon with two states, on/off land/fly.
yeah but I didn't do them as toggle buttons and yes those icons need correction, they are low priority as I don't use the land or hover stuff in my projects but like several of them, I am slowly improving them.. for example the new load/unload:
Image
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by bobthedinosaur » 18 Sep 2012, 03:37

beam me up /down scotty?
what about a tank ramp door ramp? like running in the ramp for load, and running out for unload?
Anyways you graphics skills are to be jealous of.
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PicassoCT
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by PicassoCT » 18 Sep 2012, 15:48

Crane with tank for loading?

And yes, smoths shoops them very well..
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by bobthedinosaur » 19 Sep 2012, 06:17

Im thinking like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c773qM--F4U&t=19s and the opposite direction, or back up the ramp. A crane can be ambiguous because it can be used for both load and unload
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smoth
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by smoth » 23 Sep 2012, 18:34

Image
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by bobthedinosaur » 24 Oct 2012, 19:44

whats going on with this? Have you been busy with other things or just have not been updating us?
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smoth
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by smoth » 25 Oct 2012, 02:55

Effects
Peet has a shader he is working on that I need to do the next step(in game) of the project. I am unsure of where he is on it right now as I am in japan and he has had disruptions the past 2 weeks.

Coding
Mostly I have been working out a few issues with commands and the way spring handles them. There is SO much in the engine that I wish was just lua. Most of the spring command(patrol, repeat etc) shit IMO doesn't belong in the engine and frankly I am tempted to fucking replace it all. The way lua synced->unsynced is so slow is terribly fucking frustrating for many ui related things. Which, for chili and Zervers MT, I need to do UI and drawing in widget land. I have a few more old gadgets to move their rendering code to a widget and honestly I wonder how slow to respond that they will become when I do that.

Art concepts and models
I have been putting a lot of thought into exactly what the designs are going to do. I am torn, one part of me wants to do japanese mecha style weapons with glowing bits all over and another part of me is really interested in figuring out how the loading of ammunition and firing of weapons will work out and trying to make the weapons look somewhat realistic. A lot of the modeling I have done initially may or may not be part of the game I will do as I am still working out the concepts as I see them. It is faster for me to model something than to draw concept art as my perspective for hand drawn illustrations is terrible and I can work on the concepts more freely in a model.

Story
I do and don't like the loose concept of the story I am going with and once I get the shader from peet there is a distinct chance I may start trying to work with z's mission system to try and build out a few scenarios. So some of the designs you see at first may be early mecha, I mean really it is ALL up in the air so we shall see.

Maps
I find the spring map format terribly limiting though(esp with the way spring shits on features eating fps now) and honestly it is terribly frustrating trying to craft anything substantial in this engine as far as maps go. To do anything nice looking I need to use a lot of features, but because spring has shat on fps for features for many version now I am fucked. I tried getting attention to in in the dev forum but mostly was dismissed because I cannot prove it. Since most maps in spring are not feature heavy no one noticed. I didn't notice because I thought I had a gadget that caused it until about a year ago where I was like hey, the features are eating fps now. Whateves, the only dev who listened was JK and that man is busy as it is.
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enetheru
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by enetheru » 25 Oct 2012, 06:36

smoth wrote:Maps
I find the spring map format terribly limiting though(esp with the way spring shits on features eating fps now) and honestly it is terribly frustrating trying to craft anything substantial in this engine as far as maps go. To do anything nice looking I need to use a lot of features, but because spring has shat on fps for features for many version now I am fucked. I tried getting attention to in in the dev forum but mostly was dismissed because I cannot prove it. Since most maps in spring are not feature heavy no one noticed. I didn't notice because I thought I had a gadget that caused it until about a year ago where I was like hey, the features are eating fps now. Whateves, the only dev who listened was JK and that man is busy as it is.
Interesting, I'm almost a stage of filling a map with features now, and for what I want it will be packed. looks like I have interesting times ahead.
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PicassoCT
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by PicassoCT » 25 Oct 2012, 07:56

Funny thing, i thought the same for unitpieces.. but then jK let me know, that > 30 you are basically fucked. Shiny, happy, peebles..
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knorke
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by knorke » 25 Oct 2012, 11:29

smoth wrote:I tried getting attention to in in the dev forum but mostly was dismissed because I cannot prove it.
highlighted the important part.
The way lua synced->unsynced is so slow is terribly fucking frustrating for many ui related things.
did not notice that yet. Can you post some example?
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Cubex
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by Cubex » 25 Oct 2012, 11:39

One way for testing "feature eats fps" sould be making a completely flat map, and test it

Then put some features for every x step and test it (the step or space sould be plenty)

And finally the same with less space betwen features.

if features are just simple boxes or squares, would be more "valid" to test cpu impact


Just an idea :roll:
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gajop
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by gajop » 25 Oct 2012, 11:45

iirc, the main problem was not just having a lot of features, but a lot of high poly features (you can have a lot of crappy engine trees probably);
forgive me for asking a newbie question, but do we use different LODs for features, or any other clever poly count optimization technique?
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Kloot
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by Kloot » 25 Oct 2012, 11:48

smoth wrote:I tried getting attention to in in the dev forum but mostly was dismissed because I cannot prove it. ... Whateves, the only dev who listened was JK and that man is busy as it is.
umadbro? You make a claim, you need to provide cold hard numbers to back it up. Not us.

FYI, here is one simple test that could strengthen your case if at some point your degree of butthurtness drops low enough to run it:

1) load up Green Fields in 91.0
2) spawn X >= 1000 features that use model Y
3) repeat 1 and 2 N >= 5 times, record average fps at zoom level D
4) load up Green Fields in 91.0
5) spawn X >= 1000 units that also use model Y (and have "null" scripts)
6) repeat 4 and 5 N >= 5 times, record average fps at zoom level D
7) compare results between step 3 and step 6
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smoth
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by smoth » 25 Oct 2012, 11:54

Kloot wrote:umadbro? You make a claim, you need to provide cold hard numbers to back it up. Not us.
You are right, I should TOTALY go back several versions of the engine before 71.. oh wait I cannot.
Kloot wrote:FYI, here is one simple test that could strengthen your case if at some point your degree of butthurtness drops low enough to run it:

1) load up Green Fields in 91.0
2) spawn X >= 1000 features that use model Y
3) repeat 1 and 2 N >= 5 times, record average fps at zoom level D
4) load up Green Fields in 91.0
5) spawn X >= 1000 units that also use model Y (and have "null" scripts)
6) repeat 4 and 5 N >= 5 times, record average fps at zoom level D
7) compare results between step 3 and step 6
Wooo hoo my thread is now about stuff not related to art. Oh well. I am not saying they are SLOWER than UNITS. I am saying somewhere along the way features became expensive to have 1000s of them.
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smoth
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by smoth » 25 Oct 2012, 12:00

spring-0.79.1.2
-- missing --
spring-0.67b2
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smoth
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by smoth » 25 Oct 2012, 12:06

Again, what I know, features seems to be expensive again. Costing 100s of fps. I know I played a version of my gunmetal map 13 Mar 2010 and I recall it running decently. Maybe doing features at all is a waste. Maybe I need to just render geometry onto the map using lua to draw the model? That way I can add bits throughout the maps removing any of spring culling crap and doing my own?
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Kloot
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by Kloot » 25 Oct 2012, 12:10

smoth wrote:oh wait I cannot.
Oh wait you can.

Not that it would make much sense to compare a build from six years ago with 91.0 if you had any idea about the amount of code changes made since then.
smoth wrote:I am not saying they are SLOWER than UNITS. I am saying somewhere along the way features became expensive to have 1000s of them.
I know what you are saying. I just find it extremely dubious.

Drawing thousands of objects has always been expensive. And if past versions did indeed run at significantly higher framerates, then a similar performance drop should be directly observable for units as well since all rendering code (except the visculling logic) is shared between units and features. SO DO THE GODDAMN TEST TO GIVE US RAW DATA OR SHUT UP KTXBAI.
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knorke
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Re: smoth's junk.

Post by knorke » 25 Oct 2012, 12:16

I know I played a version of my gunmetal map 13 Mar 2010 and I recall it running decently.
spring-0.81.2.1 2010-03-16
or maybe
spring-0.81.2 2010-02-22
and both can be downloaded.
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