Link a battleroom to a specific TS database

[quakeman2]

I contacted them and guess what?? They don't approve. :D
What a surprise.
Reason is mostly personal of course... nothing to do with the name or other stuff like that ( both of us know :D )

So let's suppose TS system didn't exist:
since this situation is insane i wouldn't give a shit and make the mod and let people play and see which one they like.

But... now there is this tool (TS DB) that you are also using to blackmail people creating new mods.
If you don't like them you can cut them out just not linking with original mod TS database (which obviously cut the people out)
Same thing that is happening with the Senna's fork. Which is actually a fork of his own mod (Tech Annihilation).
He wont be linked with TA the same and wont get solid amount of people ever.

Is this some kind of mafia with TS database? :D

[Silentwings]

I don't know what your "mostly personal" grievance might be, but I'm afraid it doesn't affect the reality (which long pre-dates TS databases): Spring encourages content sharing whilst also discouraging unwanted imitation of existing content. You are of course free to dislike this.

[quakeman2]

Fine i got this straight :D
I stop my project.... mafia TS database too OP tool
Since this attitude is really disgusting i wont take it vey well.

[MasterBel2]

So how many people exactly have said clearly and plainly and specifically that they won't play your mod based on TS? I would have assumed that they'd be happy to play - I myself was happy to play, and the reason that I stopped is not TS related at all. Am I like completely wrong in my assumption?

And again I'll repeat my position: no matter how similar two mods are, they shouldn't have linked TS. Even if developed by the same people.

[quakeman2]

MasterBel you prolly haven't even understood what happened in the last few days so i wont bother writing an answer.

Anyway the project is closed and the spring maintainers got what they wanted.
BTW Floris keeps not aswering to any question i ask in a normal conversation.

[Floris]

I just said yes, copy BA ts db is ok... but not linking it. After that I didnt want to continue about it. Busy with somethign else.


(I guess using ba ts db is ok-ish in the start... as long as the game stays fairly similar and the host isnt submitting demos to the ts database)


I suggested way back that mando should just make a mutator of ba, like chickens does it. (this way you stay updated about code changes, and override any other thign you like)

I havent played ReBA or know whats it about exactly...

[ShockWave]

I suggest to modify the name in "Mando Rebalanced annihilation" which should sound perfectly clear

Also for the TS i think that is better to use its own database, this allow comparison between players' skills
with and without the rebalancing.
Starting with the BA data is a proper initial value, but anyway even if we are running a new database
algo quickly goes to convergence leading to a good result after few games; so the right choose might be:
what's faster? to initiate properly a new database or just directly play some games?

[bibim]

You have to understand that sharing the same TS database actually means that all games played with a random BA fork would alter original BA rankings...

And then? Do you think people playing a BA fork would have different skill than normal BA?

Yes of course, they could have different skills depending on the differences between the 2 mods, that's exactly the purpose of this per-mod TrueSkill database.

Strange i though TS database informations belongs to the players and not to the mod maintainers.

What made you think such a thing?

And a player has total freedom to decide if he is ok to share same TS ranking with the forked mod or not.
That's why what you say really doesn't make sense.

If what I tried to explain doesn't make sense to you, I suggest you implement your own ranking system as I did. That way you will be able to test this wonderful idea of players choosing which ranking they want to use for each mod, having games of a given mod impacting rankings of other mods etc.
Games results are easily exportable using SPADS plugins and all the infrastructure is totally open-source, don't hesitate to ask if you need any help.

Then initialize my database with BA one and from there it will be forked.

That's exactly why I asked you what did you mean by "link a mod with an existing mod's database". Forking database is very different from sharing database... And indeed, as I already said in my first post of this thread, "it is technically possible to initialize a new database for your game from the BA database of course".

Requirements are a bit different for TS database forking, it would need consent of EITHER:
- the mod maintainer (so that he can prevent mod hijacking, which would be facilitated by having same TS rankings)
OR
- a Spring lobby responsible person (so that he can avoid useful TS data being lost because of original mod maintainer missing or doing data retention for personal reasons...)

But anyway you announced you stopped your project, so actually there is no point in forking BA database for it.

Otherwise is extremely tough to have a fork to get popular. (and this raise many suspicious questions in my mind)

What suspicious questions exactly?

[bibim]

there is this tool (TS DB) that you are also using to blackmail people creating new mods.
If you don't like them you can cut them out just not linking with original mod TS database (which obviously cut the people out)
Same thing that is happening with the Senna's fork. Which is actually a fork of his own mod (Tech Annihilation).
He wont be linked with TA the same and wont get solid amount of people ever.

Is this some kind of mafia with TS database? :D

mafia TS database too OP tool

I'm afraid all this blackmailing thing and mafia only exists in your head...

For your information when I implemented SLDB I made it as generic as possible, specifically to make it easy to enable TrueSkill for new games (actually, adding TrueSkill for a game in SLDB simply consists in adding a row in a table). I wanted to offer this functionality to all mods, so that they are all equal in that regard. I also implemented full re-rating functionality of all past matches, so that it is not a problem to enable TrueSkill at any given date for a mod, all past matches will be taken into account in SLDB to compute rankings.

You benefited from exactly the same ranking system as all other TrueSkill enabled games. And on top of that I told you in my very first post in this thread that it was technically possible to initialize your TS database from the BA one.
But for some reason you wanted to share the same database, which is totally different because it means you would update their database. This, of course, is much less likely to be allowed by the original mod responsible persons (even if you didn't seem to understand that).

[quakeman2]

Sorry i was busy somewhere else and delayed this reply. :D
Nice to see how the interpretation of sentences is completely changed with own favourite meaning.

If what I tried to explain doesn't make sense to you, I suggest you implement your own ranking system as I did. That way you will be able to test this wonderful idea of players choosing which ranking they want to use for each mod, having games of a given mod impacting rankings of other mods etc.

LOL it's very obvious from my previous posts that i said players can choose wether to join or not an host using a certain TS and NOT players choosing the ranking they want to use for each mod xD
I was of course meaning modders should choose which ranking they want to use for each mod... but nvm all fine.

What suspicious questions exactly?

That previous answer makes me suspicious yes :D
(players choosing which ranking they want to use for each mod) LOL clearly noone ever wrote this thing but with hater's imagination things can change.
Nice word tricks btw....

User was warned for this post in combination with other posts above of the same nature. Felonies 1 & 2. (Silentwings)

Please avoid repeated unconstructive comments that cast your own interpretations on others, especially towards someone who is trying to help you.

But anyway you announced you stopped your project, so actually there is no point in forking BA database for it.

Well i guess after some players asked me to not to give us i should instead continue.
Also is too fun to see what else will be invented to try to stop it :D
So.... after 3 days with host with more than 10 people that became empty after balancement complain (of course) ... i here asking:

since linking a TS database is not approved could you please fork the database for me?

Thanks in advance for your help and cooperation!

P.S. You should enjoy the new guy coming to REBA host with 4 accounts every morning and kickban the few people in there :D
Or Floris joining REBA for 2 seconds and ragequit xD
Both shows are too funny... pick your favourite.

[Forboding Angel]

What I find hilarious is the idea that anyone gives an actual shit about TS in BA. Talk about being stuck inside your own echo chamber/bubble...

User was warned for this post, Felony 1. (Silentwings)

[bibim]

quakeman2, accusing me of "changing interpretation of sentences with own favorite meaning", being a "hater", using "word tricks", "inventing things to try to stop your project" etc. won't lead you anywhere that is for sure. Especially when I took time to explain you things and answer precisely quoting you every time...

I could understand that you meant different things than what you wrote, but I will certainly not accept that you don't recognize it and you accuse me wrongly.

I have other things to do with higher priority than spending more time trying to help someone with your attitude, thanks in advance for your understanding!

[Floris]

Or Floris joining REBA for 2 seconds and ragequit xD

sigh.... I joined cause I thought it was BA that was hosted.


Due to all this uncoorperative behavior and neglectance of the (forking) rules, I will hereby not support you in forking BA or use its database. Give no goodwill, get no goodwill.

[quakeman2]

sigh.... I joined cause I thought it was BA that was hosted.

That's what i meant.... (Fabrice style)

I have other things to do with higher priority than spending more time trying to help someone with your attitude, thanks in advance for your understanding!

LOL and you think i believed even for 1 second you would have done? :D

User was warned for this post, felony 2. (Silentwings)

Again, please avoid repeated unconstructive comments that cast your own interpretations on others.

[quakeman2]

Hello,

i have a constructive request to ask: is it possible to clone the BA trueskill database to a new mod database?

Thank you in advace for your help.

[Silentwings]

quakeman2:

Obviously, as you can see from viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35558&start=20#p579609, your question was already answered.

It looks to me as though, had you approached this siutuation in a less childish way, you had a good chance of finding help. You cannot seriously expect to treat bibim or Floris in the way you have done so above and expect a warm response in return.

In future, if you need help, I suggest you make an effort to understand peoples responses without insulting them and throwing accusations. If, in future, the situation changes, and you are able to do this, please use a new thread.

Locked.