Balance algorithm clarity and visibility for players
Posted: 18 Sep 2010, 15:08
Really needs to be somewhere to display the !chrank of players, and it needs to be public. I think some admins make themselves lower ranks
Open Source Realtime Strategy Game Engine
https://springrts.com/phpbb/
That goes for !clan too.Kixu wrote:Really needs to be somewhere to display the !chrank of players, and it needs to be public. I think some admins make themselves lower ranks
The ranks taken into account by SPADS for balancing are shown in output of standard commands such as !status, !whois, !smurfs etc., but only for users who have sufficient rights to execute !chrank themselves. It is not available for everyone because some autohost admins down't want to make smurfs information public, and seeing the real rank taken into account by SPADS would reveal this information.Kixu wrote:Really needs to be somewhere to display the !chrank of players, and it needs to be public. I think some admins make themselves lower ranks
No, the point of the "clan" and "shareId" preferences is that you can make them private so noone can try to team/shareId with you if you don't want to.Jazcash wrote:That goes for !clan too.
Code: Select all
[Tue Sep 21 15:41:06 2010] <[PinK]KWD> !pset clan PiRO
[Tue Sep 21 15:41:18 2010] <Ye> !pset clan PiRO
If it's configured to do so, yes.Wombat wrote:btw, i was wondering, spads detects smurfs, if im not wrong it balances with highest detected rank, right ?
Do you have an example?Wombat wrote:if yes, it doesnt work in my opinion D:
Unfortunately this screenshot alone doesn't mean much to me because:Wombat wrote:
i dont think they pset'd
In next SPADS update (0.9.5), ranks taken into account for balancing will be shown to regular users too in !status and !whois outputs.Zydox wrote:What we need is a way to publicly list users ranks, both the lobby one and the chrank one
No, balance can be configured to take smurfs into account automatically through IP address, and/or use manual ranks given by autohost owners for specific players.klapmongool wrote:Bibim, im pretty sure that wont really work since the balance system is based on playtime and as such ignores skill and smurfs.
Currently this can only happen for players with clan tags, because their clan string is known by other players, who then can do "!pset clan <theirTag>" to try to be in same team.klapmongool wrote:Maybe you can explain why people should have the right to pset to someone who doesnt want them psetted to them?
If you mean you don't want others to be able to set their clan preference to same value as yours, it's very easy: just say "!pSet clan <whateverHere>" in private to the autohost, that way noone will know your clan preference.klapmongool wrote:At the very least provide a way (a command) for people to ignore psets.
Taking smurfs into account, cool, but how do you know the 'real' skill level of a smurf? (on the topic of smurfs, i'd argue that their identity should not be protected, as a default setting). And manual rank setting requires a lot of effort by the owners, it is useful for fixing balance issues with regular players but not really the best way to solve all issues.bibim wrote:No, balance can be configured to take smurfs into account automatically through IP address, and/or use manual ranks given by autohost owners for specific players.
Yes, and that is exactly where the problem lies: people !psetting with clanplayers. On a regular basis I see people !psetting up with PiRO or Fx; thus eliminating the last change to get a balanced game going. This is especially done by the players who have the skill level to balance these games. Besides, why should other people be able to pset themselves to a player who is in a clan if that player doesn't want that? My question stands.bibim wrote: Currently this can only happen for players with clan tags, because their clan string is known by other players, who then can do "!pset clan <theirTag>" to try to be in same team.
See what you are suggesting here? The first solution requires clans to set a 'secret' value as pset value, the second solution disables clans to use this 'secret' value because it requires the use of the clantag itself. When some clans/owners like the first solution and others like the second only the second one will be usable (This is in fact already the case). Thus the first is crap (also for a number of other reasons) and the second has its own problems: Not all hosts (will) apply this rule. It doesn't really deal with the principle either; a player should have the right not to subjected to the !pset preference of another player to him/her. Maybe you can add in a pset option that allows clanmode tag on a personal level?bibim wrote: If you mean you don't want others to be able to set their clan preference to same value as yours, it's very easy: just say "!pSet clan <whateverHere>" in private to the autohost, that way noone will know your clan preference.
If you mean you want to be able to disable the clan preference functionnality entirely on the autohost, it's very easy too, just change the clanMode setting to "tag" (instead of "tag;pref"), with "!set clanMode tag" command.
Depending on autohost configuration, it's either the rank manually affected by autohost admin, or the highest lobby rank of his detected smurf accounts. Sure, lobby rank (time spent in game) isn't a reliable skill indicator, but that's a different problem, which exists for non-smurf players too.klapmongool wrote:Taking smurfs into account, cool, but how do you know the 'real' skill level of a smurf?
Why? Personally I think current behaviour (showing only the real rank taken into account by SPADS for balancing) is good.klapmongool wrote:(on the topic of smurfs, i'd argue that their identity should not be protected, as a default setting).
It's quite used by some autohost admins, and it's actually quite effective because regular players are the ones who smurf the most...klapmongool wrote:And manual rank setting requires a lot of effort by the owners, it is useful for fixing balance issues with regular players but not really the best way to solve all issues.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's not a good thing to allow random players to try to be in the same team as clan players who didn't set their clan preference (and that's why I plan to fix it).klapmongool wrote:Yes, and that is exactly where the problem lies: people !psetting with clanplayers. On a regular basis I see people !psetting up with PiRO or Fx; thus eliminating the last change to get a balanced game going. This is especially done by the players who have the skill level to balance these games. Besides, why should other people be able to pset themselves to a player who is in a clan if that player doesn't want that? My question stands.
See what you are suggesting here? The first solution requires clans to set a 'secret' value as pset value, the second solution disables clans to use this 'secret' value because it requires the use of the clantag itself. When some clans/owners like the first solution and others like the second only the second one will be usable (This is in fact already the case). Thus the first is crap (also for a number of other reasons) and the second has its own problems: Not all hosts (will) apply this rule. It doesn't really deal with the principle either; a player should have the right not to subjected to the !pset preference of another player to him/her. Maybe you can add in a pset option that allows clanmode tag on a personal level?
You're welcome.klapmongool wrote:Finally, ty for discussing this and taking this criticism. I like your work on autohosts.
You mean showing who uses clan preferences (without showing the value) in !status output? Hum that could be nice indeed... Thing is !status output must not be too long to avoid wrapped lines, but I will see what I can do.Wombat wrote:could u plz show somehow pset in !status results ? i mean, who use pset ofc