gajop wrote:This is the difference between interpolation off and on. For the demonstration, I downscaled the heightmap brush size to 32x32 from 256x256 so it becomes a lot more apparent.
(I realize now that I should've probably used a different camera, but I think it's still clear).
I think those brushes are so large that even at the maximum scale they still produce sharp artifacts.
That's a major difference even at a tiny scale though.
gajop wrote:These are all much better now. I think we need some to make rivers as well.
Added rivers and crevice brushes to my to-do.
gajop wrote:I've added a "precise map editing controls" issue. I've yet to decide how this gets implemented though.
Appreciated. Being able to edit the min/max height in game (respecting water level as well) would be optimal, but that's part of mapinfo.lua.
gajop wrote:Looking at it from another angle, that way you don't have to keep changing your brush settings, and your "current" setting persists.
I could make it keep a setting per brush, and maybe even have custom brushes that can be saved (can also make it persist through game start/end) - which sounds like a better option to me.
I kinda want to try making a map on my own to try and figure out how best to optimize these things.
Custom brushes might be the best solution. They're a bit more complicated to use but they ensure that you never lose your settings. It might be best to associate them with the maps that they're used on, ie as part of the map 'source', since they may only be reusable within that scope.
Also, I think making a map would be awesome for learning more about how the tools are used. Do you have anything in mind, like even a vague concept of what you think would be cool for a map?
gajop wrote:The main issue right now is editing those values ingame. Most options are not available so I'll work to extend the Lua API there.
Saving to mapinfo.lua is not a problem, but I want to avoid blind editing (changing those values without seeing how they look), as it defeats the purpose of using scened.
Urg, engine limitations. Good luck I guess.
gajop wrote:Could've just used the SME equivalent of the level command.
I'm still not convinced limiting the height is needed while editing with brushes. Imo, it's only useful when generating the map, but that's a different concept entirely.
Set and level tend to produce rigid shapes and more contrast than hitting the 'ceiling' does. SME's set brush is square only, which is even worse. I wasn't able to do the same thing in scened because of that.
Note how the shape of the flat topped mountain has a mountain-shaped outline. That's ultimately what becomes the neat caldera.
gajop wrote:Ramp will be added. Road is rather advanced and along with walls, probably won't be added in this milestone.
Road would indeed be complicated, but walls should be fairly easy. It would be a little more complicated if you wanted the wall to follow the height of the underlying terrain, but not that much more complicated.
gajop wrote:If a higher quality circle were to be added, the default one might be dropped, but as it is, the implementation I have is a bit more accurate. (Speed is same once the shape gets loaded).
I guess this would make us have only add, smooth and level, which wouldn't be a bad thing (a simplified interface is always good).
I'm not sure how shapes would be used for smooth or level.
Set will be added, and shapes obviously make sense here.
Smooth and level are probably fine as is. I think set might benefit from something a little more sophisticated than just shapes. I've been playing around with world machine a bit and figured out quite a few things. One of the things it does is let you draw shapes with natural looking 'fractal' edges, which is really difficult to use in WM because of the absurd scaling, but could be adapted without too much trouble I think.
gajop wrote:Editing normals would help here.
I can think of quite a few uses for those, too. It'll take some experimentation to see what looks best in what situation though.
I think both terrain and texture brushes should have a rotation option, preferably in either 1 degree or 5 degree increments (5 might be more practical), and also an option to have the brush always point 'uphill', so that you can align things like brick walls and cliff textures easily along arbitrary slope directions. I dunno about hotkeys for all that though, since both control and alt+mousewheel are already assigned to camera actions.
Agreed about adding it. Leaving hotkeys aside, it can always be added as a numeric option for now.
A texture x,y alignment option would also be useful, for example if you wanted to line up the center of a fractal with the terrain at a given location. (I plan to make a map out of this as soon as glowfx are available
Will add this too.
More awesome. It's ridiculous how fast you get some of this stuff working.
Some other things that I learned from world machine. Erosion is very important for getting natural looking terrain. It probably makes up most of the effect you get from WM, aside from the texturing tools. I also figured out how to use the erosion tools in SME, which it turns out work surprisingly well if you know what you're doing. SME has whole map smooth, water erode and thermal erode, all of which are extremely useful. Water erode is also very slow both in SME and in WM, and thermal erode has to be applied many times in SME to get a decent effect. With the path recalculation issue obviously all of that stuff would be slower in scened, but I figure if you can combine operations (like several repetitions of water erode and several more of thermal, plus a post smoothing) you might be able to avoid excess recalculations. I hope, anyway.
TBH I think I'd be willing to sit through the lag just to be able to have arbitrary terrain brush sizes. It would have to be really
slow to be any worse than not having undo/redo in SME, and as is SMEs brush size goes much larger. Note also that SME has an 'erode' brush mode, but that's basically useless since natural erosion always acts uniformly over the terrain.
I've started experimenting with getting fairly realistic cliffs/canyons/mesas, and the results are very promising if I can figure out how to texture it well.