Core Platform

[qray]

A second try on voidground: space map with the the traditional Core metal map design in mind:





Link to Springfiles.com

The project started with two objectives:

• Play around more with voidground/voidwater
• Make a metal map that looks better than OTA style

In addition, I wanted to do this all within the limits of the map format (no add. lua, features, fog etc.) to see how far I can get.

The two main limitations I noticed:
First, at different zoom/viewing distance levels steps and spikes appear on straight lines.
Second, especially at steep corners one pixel in the diffuse map is way too big to get a smooth line (and voidground doesn't allow to hide this with blurring; visible especially at the sides of the ramps).

Remarks:
As on Violet Rampart, I had to displace the diffuse map with respect to the height map file so that both match after compilation (this time 33px to the right in the coordinate system of the diffuse map).
I decided to keep the "shinyness" (specular) low and the map overall a bit on the dark side to not disturb in-game. Grayish units on a grayish map, you know...
Vents: they are not 100% symmetric to match with the texture (but the difference should be negligible in-game). In addition, I included bitmaps for smoke from Spring itself with a slight color shift to the red to adjust the vent smoke color to the map color scheme (most people probably won't notice any change, so it also shouldn't have annoying side effects on games using these).
Playing with possible map features, I use (for me a first) a normal map and a lightemission map. While the normal map works quite well on the platforms and barricades, I could't get it to work as envisioned on the gratings. Initially I had hoped to accomplish a better 3D effect at, resp. around, the holes. There was also a skyreflectmod map, but it ate half of my fps performance. So, for the sake of playability I dumped it again (file is included it anybody wants to try).
I didn't find a lightning setting where I was happy with advmapshading on and off (off, the map looks now a bit too reddish).
I used only 2D programs: Inkscape (initial height map and some simple texture design), Krita (height map in 16bit) and Gimp (everything else). In the end, I guess the height map at the steep borders would have been easier to make using a 3D program.


Credits:

Two things helped tremendously to make it "shiny":
The beautiful Eta_Carinae_dark2 Skybox from Beherith and the following two great metal texture sets:
One from jylhis: http://jylhis.deviantart.com/art/Free-M ... -318314339
The second from p0ss: http://opengameart.org/content/rusted-m ... xture-pack (released under CC BY 3.0)
In addition, I again used some detail textures from Beherith's collection
The inspiration for the gratings on the ramps came from Yak's tests
As always, it uses the map blueprint container.

[REVENGE]

This actually looks really really good!

[PicassoCT]

It needs great spaceships floating in the midst between - like mountains hanging in the drydocks.. and when you shoot at them bits of scrap fall of and float over the map..

[code_man]

Reminds me of one of them q3 maps.
Nice work.

[qray]

Reminds me of one of them q3 maps.

Must be a subconscious influence from too many hours playing q3

Now it just needs jump pads: I imagine Banthas and Kroggies flying over the map shooting each other midair

[knorke]

The "highlighted edges" give interessting future look.
Definitely reminds of some maps in arena shooter games.

Perhaps do more with that? Have colored bands around the edges of hills, arrows pointing towards the ramps etc.


Gameplay wise the map does not seem attractive to me: too big, super small mex radius plus "metal everywhere" plus clearly defined team areas= smells like endless porc games...
Metalheck is popular map with similiar eco but it is small enough that there can be constant fighting and the borders per team are less clear.
Imo either increase mex-radius or have some areas where one can build 4x4 blocks of mexes or something.

[qray]

The "highlighted edges" give interessting future look.
...
Perhaps do more with that? Have colored bands around the edges of hills, arrows pointing towards the ramps etc.

Actually, I shortly thought about this, too. But then dumped the idea of glowing things inside the playable area. Struck me as one of those things, that might look great at first sight but get on your nerves after a short while - distracting from units and gameplay.
On the other hand: a Tron like look sounds cool ... hmmm, now you have put an idea in my head

I also have since a while a map design idea with glowing cracks in rock (+using the lava shader from The Yak et. al.). But this will take some time till sth. presentable is there... and maybe it doesn't work out at all due to above mentioned reasons: too much distraction.

Gameplay wise the map does not seem attractive to me: too big, super small mex radius plus "metal everywhere" plus clearly defined team areas= smells like endless porc games...
Metalheck is popular map with similiar eco but it is small enough that there can be constant fighting and the borders per team are less clear.
Imo either increase mex-radius or have some areas where one can build 4x4 blocks of mexes or something.

Though I agree that in general a "normal" map with spread out metal spots is more interesting, every once in a while I like the metal map frenzy. Size- and gameplay-wise I aimed for sth. between Metal Heck (8x8) and Core Prime (20x20) to close the gap; so I chose 14x12.

Only played a few games (BA, 2v2) on this one so far, but never had an endless porc game. The "build a lot moving units and attack" strategy always by far beat the "porc with static defense" approach (experienced it from both sides). This corresponds with my BA experience on other metal maps: the team that tries to porc simply gets overrun. There's just too much ressources to spam with.

But if somebody likes to transform this into a normal metal spot type map, (s)he's free to do so. It's CC-BY 3.0.

[qray]

On a different matter:

I noticed one thing I have forgotten: all terrain units. They can walk "out of" the map area (meaning the non transparent area) into the void.
My first thought now was using there terrain with 0 move speed. But would path finding be smart enough to stop units before getting there or would they then be stuck indefinitely? Will have to try this...

Any Lua based hack solution would probably lead to nasty pathing side effects, wouldn't it?

[Anarchid]

Add fully transparent acid death voidwater maybe.

(you already have voidwater, so just make it acid)

Non-amphibious AT units will then not even think to path there, and if games have amphibous AT units, those will just lethally perish to their irreversible mortal deaths.

Also, nullified movetype will prevent ones that could get anywhere from getting there.

You could also disable map deformations so that games which do things with heightmaps (ZK) don't allow people to build islands of the void.

I'd love a version with conventional-ish metalspots layout. I can even make you 3d models for the mexes, like on Coagulation Marsh, do you want?

[knorke]

so I chose 14x12.

But it is 18 x 16

My first thought now was using there terrain with 0 move speed. But would path finding be smart enough to stop units before getting there or would they then be stuck indefinitely? Will have to try this...

There are some maps with 0 speed terrain. For ex the middle mountain on http://springfiles.com/spring/spring-maps/hellspass
An XTA arm_spider correctly refuses to climb that. I guess the stuck-factor is similiar to units getting stuck anywhere else?

You could also disable map deformations so that games which do things with heightmaps (ZK) don't allow people to build islands of the void.

Does notDeformable=true really block the Lua functions that alter heightmap?
There is also Spring.SetMapSquareTerrainType and Spring.SetTerrainTypeData, so any terraform Lua could change the terrain speeds anyway. (dont know if zK does)

[qray]

Add fully transparent acid death voidwater maybe.
(you already have voidwater, so just make it acid)

Water does already damage. Main problem are the steep sides of the higher levels between the textured area and the water (though I also did not pay too much attention to get water level just up to the edge of the lower level).
There, all terrain units could crawl in areas, where there is no texture...

You could also disable map deformations so that games which do things with heightmaps (ZK) don't allow people to build islands of the void.

Crazy ZK, why do you allow users to do such a thing LOL
How does terrain deformation work in ZK? Does it depend on the terrain hardness? Or can you only switch it on/off altogether?
(I'd rather like the effect of big explosions bending the gratings, but leavin the platforms basically untouched).

I'd love a version with conventional-ish metalspots layout. I can even make you 3d models for the mexes, like on Coagulation Marsh, do you want?

Well, this seems to be a popular demand; first knorke, now you... Mainly by ZK guys, right? Metal maps do not play well there?
Does this map work there at all (AFAIK, voidground works only after 92 and ZK is still on 91?)

Hmm, maybe I should sit down again and just do an alternative version. I'm open for suggestions for the layout/distribution, since I didn't thought about it at all (after all, it was planned as metal map). I guess the standard 2.0m spots would be OK. Distribution would have to be scattered a bit (also middle platforms, some in the back well shielded to start from).
If anybody has a proposal (in words or a sketch), come forward While I see it rather as a 2v2 or 3v3 map, others most probably think differently.


For the spot design: the most easy thing to do that fits the overall look would probably be slightly changing the texture and specularity of some tiles on the platforms and make quadratic metal spots (then of course with higher radius than 10). Kind of: the shiny tiles give metal.
I am not opposed to have some 3D like structure, but right now, I myself can't imagine one that would be a) visible but unobstrusive and b) fits the overall design.
Honestly, I guess I won't be able to get it done before next year. Taking into account the old rule that things always take longer than anticipated. Even if if you anticipate this
The busy holiday season is already starting up and between Xmas and New Year I rather spent time with family and friends than in front of the screen...


And now knorke answered while I was writing too much text

But it is 18 x 16

That's overall size including voidwater/voidground around. Textured area (platforms etc.) is 14x12. Just to have some area around for aircraft movement (I think it plays nicer this way).

There are some maps with 0 speed terrain. For ex the middle mountain on http://springfiles.com/spring/spring-maps/hellspass
An XTA arm_spider correctly refuses to climb that. I guess the stuck-factor is similiar to units getting stuck anywhere else?

Thanks for the info . I'll try this when I get home

[Anarchid]

Main problem are the steep sides of the higher levels between the textured area and the water (though I also did not pay too much attention to get water level just up to the edge of the lower level).
There, all terrain units could crawl in areas, where there is no texture...

Oh! I understand now, You've also used voidground for platforms at variable altitude! Kudos for inventiveness

How does terrain deformation work in ZK? Does it depend on the terrain hardness? Or can you only switch it on/off altogether?
(I'd rather like the effect of big explosions bending the gratings, but leavin the platforms basically untouched).

Ground deformation works like in all other Spring games, but there's a separate ability to "build" terrain for resources, which does not depend on hardness.

There are two ways to get rid of it:
1) setting ground to not be deformable at all in mapinfo
2) using ZK-specific stuff that adds forbidden-to-terraform zones. No map uses it yet, and it being ZK-specific is probably a good reason not to.

Well, this seems to be a popular demand; first knorke, now you... Mainly by ZK guys, right? Metal maps do not play well there?

Sure they do, but it's less fun generally. More of a quicky special game mode kind of thing than a serious pwnage of competitiveness tryhardness. There are a lot of silly/funny modes in ZK but at the end of the day a lot of people want their bread and butter of solid conventional gameplay.

Does this map work there at all (AFAIK, voidground works only after 92 and ZK is still on 91?)

People were able to test it and complain about spiders crawling in the void :) So i guess that works.

I myself can't imagine one that would be a) visible but unobstrusive and b) fits the overall design.

I was thinking simply some 3d shifted plates, or an arrangement of low metallic boxes. Basically your typical "techy" metalspot, but with some very tiny 3d greebles.

Hmm, maybe I should sit down again and just do an alternative version. I'm open for suggestions for the layout/distribution, since I didn't thought about it at all (after all, it was planned as metal map). I guess the standard 2.0m spots would be OK. Distribution would have to be scattered a bit (also middle platforms, some in the back well shielded to start from).

A non-speedmetal with this theme could be quite nice, yes :)

Honestly, I guess I won't be able to get it done before next year

No rush :)

[qray]

OK, just using 0 speed terrain doesn't work:

Some units actually stop and can come back, but others "fall" in the void (even if not pushed) and are then stuck. Looks kind of sad seeing them wiggling there...
The only thing I can now think of is to combine it with some gadget (micro teleport + stop order?). Since it's only for AT units, it might not lead directly to pathing hell . But definetly needs some work and testing.
I think I remember a map with a virtual wall (downcount?)...

Ground deformation works like in all other Spring games, but there's a separate ability to "build" terrain for resources, which does not depend on hardness.

There are two ways to get rid of it:
1) setting ground to not be deformable at all in mapinfo
2) using ZK-specific stuff that adds forbidden-to-terraform zones. No map uses it yet, and it being ZK-specific is probably a good reason not to.

OK, so general map setting it has to be.

I was thinking simply some 3d shifted plates, or an arrangement of low metallic boxes. Basically your typical "techy" metalspot, but with some very tiny 3d greebles.

I see

[knorke]

Some units actually stop and can come back, but others "fall" in the void (even if not pushed) and are then stuck.

Hm yes, 0-speed terrain only prevents the unit from walking there.
I guess the "even if not pushed" happens because of physics, especially in mods with modrules.lua setting allowUnitGravityFunnyJumping=true (name siliar)
It is the same as units getting stuck on any other normal terrain or sometimes falling into water on their own etc.

Beside pushing there are more ways how units might end up among the stars:
-passengers falling out of airtransports
-unit catapults (like the newton-gravity-beam turrets in zero-K)
-jumpsets or similiar
-impulse from explosions
I think damaging water or some Lua to deal with illegal spacetravel is unavoidable...

The only thing I can now think of is to combine it with some gadget (micro teleport + stop order?). Since it's only for AT units, it might not lead directly to pathing hell

Easiest way is maybe to only check the Y-coordinate? If the unit is too low then it is off the world.
That would also work with changing heightmap, like players terraforming new islands.
Units doing "legal" jumps across the void would also still work.
A Is-unit-in-area-checks would break with such things.

I dont think it creates "pathing hell" because it only affects units which are in places where they should not have been able to path to in the first place.

[zwzsg]

In HexFarm, I ended up combining long sharp cliff, null speed terrain with max frequency spiky heightmap, and a gadget to destroy units ending in the void. Still not perfect.

Note: jK says spiky heightmap is bad for pathfinder.

[qray]

Good ideas

I guess I'll go with:

In addition to the 0 speed terrain (so pathing won't lead units there), a gadget that destroys (without wreckage) any unit in the void areas which is below a certain height (very close to ground). After all, the water damage does basically the same in most of the void area already.
Since it's all rectangular, position check should be easy.

Maybe with some "plop" sound when it happens and/or a little visual flash; but that may be a step too far ...

[zwzsg]

Since it's all rectangular, position check should be easy.

Or use a terrain type check...

Also I notice now I forgot to mention my gadget attempt to push back units to nearby safe ground, and only destroy them when they're so far in the void nothing around isn't void.

[jK]

In HexFarm, I ended up combining long sharp cliff, null speed terrain with max frequency spiky heightmap, and a gadget to destroy units ending in the void. Still not perfect.

Note: jK says spiky heightmap is bad for pathfinder.

use poison water?

[Google_Frog]

Don't destroy units that fall into the void. Apply movectrl and accelerate them downwards for several seconds as if they have fallen off the platform. Then destroy them.

[qray]

Don't destroy units that fall into the void. Apply movectrl and accelerate them downwards for several seconds as if they have fallen off the platform. Then destroy them.

Falling down for several seconds would be a problem as there is not so much down to fall into.

Anyway: it is only the last resort when people really by intent steer units down there. Normal pathing doesn't do it (at least in BA where I did several test runs with all terrain units over the whole map back and forth).
I am currently starting to learn how to script a visual effect (small flash) and sound. But it is a bit slow (high work load in RL).