HUGE MAP... "bigIcey"

[smoth]

Ok, I really love white... but in OTA the snow levels always blind me they were soo bright. So, I made this for spring. I has taken MANY MANY hours to make. It is HUGE and took over five hours to compile.

First to answer the questions.... I know I will hear.

Metal patches?
None visible but the most concentrated areas are the tops of the hills. Have fun defending them.

Why is is a giant island?
Well, to be honest All the maps that have suddenly cut off landscapes really look silly to me. I personaly cannot stand how it looks. This way I have some kind of reasonable end to the edge.

what is that spec with legs?
it is a mech. They are 2X2 foot print and about 1&1/2 taller then the OTA commanders. ths map is HUGE.

How big is the thing?
I don't know... it is 14X1024. 100+megs. Rar-ed at 67megs.





as you guys can see the map actually shows only half of it's self and then fogs off. This was in consideration of systems and that I want the environment to feel like there was a lot of lingering humidity.

Z, I know you are our best constructive critisizer. before I spend a large sum of time plopping this on PTA please give your feedback now. I really don't want to go through the compile/zip/upload more then once. I can deal with adjusting things but I want to upload once.

*edit*
I updated the shots and added 2 more
*end edit*

[Warlord Zsinj]

I'm sorry, I know I've been saying this alot; but Spring has afforded you the opportunity to make soaring mountains and deep valleys in which to fight in, and everyone seems to insist on making flat maps with minor hills and dips.

Make some mountains, man, mountains!

And probably make the sky a bit whiter...

[smoth]

I'm sorry, I know I've been saying this alot; but Spring has afforded you the opportunity to make soaring mountains and deep valleys in which to fight in, and everyone seems to insist on making flat maps with minor hills and dips.

Make some mountains, man, mountains!

And probably make the sky a bit whiter...

odd thing about the sky on a "good" card it looks like a dusk/night sky.

as far as moutains... need I remind you:
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1039
Which you posted on.

However, If I have to re-compile this puppy.... which will take a large sum of time... I can adjust the highmap so the hills are like... 6-7 stories tall.. however those hills are already several stories tall.

[AF]

I still think someone needs to take depth to its extremes in maps, and I'm glad warlord has decided to follow suit in my opinions. Even that map doesnt use depth as well as it should nor does the lack of depth dot hat snow map well. Though It does look nice...

[SavageBT]

I think you'll find that most people's 1st/2nd map uses massive height differences but they quickly realise this is impractical in the current version of spring for several reasons. I know they have been posted in various places but i'll recap for you.

Spring seems to igore terrain angles when pathing - Tanks driving up 50 degree+ slopes look REALLY silly. Planes landing on 85 degree + slopes look stupid. When a unit decided to take a slope because the gentle path is clogged it arrives when the battle is over, the players have gone home and the sun has gone cold.
Springs clipping plane is WAY too aggressive. If you have a height difference of more than 600-700 on an 8k*8k map mountains just disappear in the foreground. These mountains are barely more than gentle hills. Also noted (sorry i forgot who) on the bugs page (and on an early version of a map i worked on) an ocean deeper than about 2 or 300 tends to lose its bottom with some camera angles - you get a bit of underwater slope then the infinite 'end of the world' blue underneath.

What I'm trying to say is that we would all LOVE to do massive mountain ranges, tall coastal cliffs with snow topped peaks, deep winding ravines and lofty plateaus but it's just not practical at this stage of spring.


Did i mention that planes will fly through high or sharp terrain?

[zwzsg]

Z, I know you are our best constructive critisizer. before I spend a large sum of time plopping this on PTA please give your feedback now.

Thx, but it's rather hard to critize such a map with only two screenshots. I'd say that at first, the map seem flat, but considering it's huge, maybe it's not flat and what looks on the pic like tiny crest may be huge cliff. Still, it looks like there are really huge flat plain, so try to spice the map up, either with lots of valley, or a few small hand made part (I mean part where you manually create a heightmap with facets and sharp edges and then texture it differently so it looks like a construction lost in snow).

The minimap sure looks odd. It doesn't at all look like an isle, but like a cut out of a larger land area. Could you try to make better shores? Some part could be cliffs diving into water, other beaches gently sloping into water, but there must be some relief indicating it's a shore, instead of brutal cut of the land regardeless of what the relief was twenty meter before.

You're saying the map is really huge filesize wise, yet most of it seem to be bland snow. Try to take advantage of spring tiling. If there is 32ix32j periodicity in the texture map, the mapconv will take advantage of it and filesize will be greatly reduced. So try to delete in the texture map all area that are bland snow, and keep only the cliffs (and area around cliff), and fill the deleted swow in with a tiled texture (32x32 being small, use a multiple of it, like 96x96 or 256x256).

[NOiZE]

imo the isle is a bit too round..

[Warlord Zsinj]

Smoth: Yeah, that's one of my favourite maps; one of the few that have actually tried to create an alien world and explore the limits of Spring's boundaries, rather than making boring flat planes.

SavageBT, those are minor issues, and the next Spring update won't be a long way off. Will you really go back and redo your maps once that update comes out? Why not make maps the way you want them today?

Don't hold back your imagination because of bug limitations. These are limitations that have been recognised and will be ammended.
It's not like OTA where the game is out, the developer is dead, and any limitations you just have to deal with.

[smoth]

I'd say that at first, the map seem flat, but considering it's huge, maybe it's not flat and what looks on the pic like tiny crest may be huge cliff.

yep. that middle hill is 3-4 times as tall as the commander. It is huge

Still, it looks like there are really huge flat plain, so try to spice the map up, either with lots of valley, or a few small hand made part (I mean part where you manually create a heightmap with facets and sharp edges and then texture it differently so it looks like a construction lost in snow).

hmm... I can do sharp edges in spring? is there a way to avoid the walls crawling like do in core prime indust?

The minimap sure looks odd. It doesn't at all look like an isle, but like a cut out of a larger land area. Could you try to make better shores? Some part could be cliffs diving into water, other beaches gently sloping into water, but there must be some relief indicating it's a shore, instead of brutal cut of the land regardeless of what the relief was twenty meter before.

I'll try. No promises but I see what I can do.

You're saying the map is really huge filesize wise, yet most of it seem to be bland snow. Try to take advantage of spring tiling. If there is 32ix32j periodicity in the texture map, the mapconv will take advantage of it and filesize will be greatly reduced. So try to delete in the texture map all area that are bland snow, and keep only the cliffs (and area around cliff), and fill the deleted swow in with a tiled texture (32x32 being small, use a multiple of it, like 96x96 or 256x256).

yeah, I could likely take the entire underwater area and make it a bit... solid and really save size. As far as the main part... there are subtle waves in the snow etc. I wanted to try and not be too flat.

[zwzsg]

Well, you can still do sharp edges on slow slopes, and have it look like pyramids, bunker roof, parking slots, conical tanks, whatever with geometrical shape and low slopes, but something to break the monotony of the map.


Can't you keep a few subtle waves and still delete and replace with tiles the rest of the snow? Or delete and tile the waves as well and replace them with wave made only with heightmap and spring engine shading? Yes, it would takes time and it would be rather difficult to add tiles manually on a rendered map, and remove the seam between rendered and tiled parts, so if anyone know an easier way to reduce filesize tell it!

[Redfish]

It looks great, however I wonder who would want to play a game that lasts for something like a week.

[Torrasque]

How big is the thing?
I don't know... it is 14X1024. 100+megs. Rar-ed at 67megs.

It is 1024*1024 in OTA term???? I can't blieve it :)
It don't look so big on the screenshot.

Does it eat your computer?

[genblood]

I agree it looks great. If there was a opinion in the game if the
commander dies, it ends the game. Like in the orginal TA game.
Also, their should be a way that if you are playing the game and
the other player quits or gets disconnect the game ends.

You might end up playing a game with no real players ... Just
a few ideas ...

[smoth]

How big is the thing?
I don't know... it is 14X1024. 100+megs. Rar-ed at 67megs.

It is 1024*1024 in OTA term???? I can't blieve it :)
It don't look so big on the screenshot.

Does it eat your computer?

no idea how big in OTA terms... definitely bigger then 16X16... 14336X14336 pixel texture map... anyone know what OTA size that is?

[Torrasque]

I think it's 28*28

[SavageBT]

Warlord Zsinj:

SavageBT, those are minor issues, and the next Spring update won't be a long way off. Will you really go back and redo your maps once that update comes out? Why not make maps the way you want them today?

Don't hold back your imagination because of bug limitations. These are limitations that have been recognised and will be ammended.
It's not like OTA where the game is out, the developer is dead, and any limitations you just have to deal with.

Yeah I'll probably redo any that will benefit from it.
I don't entirely agree but you're essentially right... At the moment I'm only releasing maps that look ok with shallow slopes as not every map should require rock-climbing equipment - there's still a place for flatter battlefields.

Flatter maps leave more room to manouver, make for faster battles and weaker strongholds (fast/furious games). And by flatter I don't mean tabletop flat, you can still have interesting features etc.

At the moment I'd rather release maps that actually function and don't disappear when you get within a few hundred metres of them... The grander height (height) scale maps are in the works and will be released when spring can handle them.


zwzsg:

Yes, it would takes time and it would be rather difficult to add tiles manually on a rendered map, and remove the seam between rendered and tiled parts

OK, what if one were to make a texture the texture the size of the final map with the basic texture tiled all over it, then do another texture with the ridges/cliffs and features, a transparent background and faded edges on the features then slap the features texture over your tiled base texture... A little blending etc around the edges and you have now on the ground and rocks on your cliffs.. This might look a little odd for grass though. Come to think of it this is kinda similar to what TerTexGen does, only without the height constraints.

I'll do an example later tonight if i have time.

[smoth]

New shots...

I made the heightmap different and broke up the coast for a bit more of a natural look. I also removed alot of my detail and now the map is 37 megs unzipped. Also the shots were taken on a nicer machine then mine.

Note that the large yellow boxy aircraft has a 12X12 footprint.

[[K.B.] Napalm Cobra]

Looks nice. Especially on a half decent machine.

[Storm]

Looks good to me, at least, looking forward to play it.

[NOiZE]

looks good is this version already on FU?