Present:
[list]
[*][1uP]CarRepairer
[*][CN]Zydox
[*][PinK]halcyon
[*][teh]decay
[*]_koshi_
[*]a1983
[*]bibim_
[*]BrainDamage
[*]Clogger
[*]Licho[0K]
[*]Malina[/list]
Agenda
[list]
[*]SpringLobby non-compliance with multi-engine protocol (and DisableVersionCheck config)
[*]SpringLobby non-compliance with full engine version name in server data
[*]Vote for account recovery stuff
[*]https://github.com/spring/LobbyProtocol/compare/email
[*]Add ueberserver stuff to protocol?
[*]SAYBATTLEPRIVATE & SAYBATTLEPRIVATEEX
[*]"et" compat flag (send NOCHANNELTOPIC on join if channel has no topic, used only by IRC bridge)
[*]Decoupling account control from lobbyserver (for integration with external stuff like desura, fb, zk etc)
[*]Cleaning old accounts
[*]Server development/documentation / what was done this week
[*]Custom properties[/list]
_koshi_ bibim_, BrainDamage, Malina, a1983 [1uP]CarRepairer: all awake?
[CN]Zydox I have an issue with the e-mail proposal...
Malina +
[CN]Zydox In it's current state, it says nothing how to handle multiple accounts with the same e-mail...
_koshi_ hold it
22:43
[PinK]halcyon
[CN]Zydox forever or until the meeting begins?
_koshi_ just a little while longer
BrainDamage somehow, the meeting time is always unfortunate for me since it happends around the time i eat
22:46
_koshi_ alright, we'll assume no one else is coming / being really late for now
---------------------------- meeting begin
hi
minutes volunteer please
[CN]Zydox Hello
[PinK]halcyon hey
22:51
_koshi_ I guess we need a round-robin script for assigning one?
[PinK]halcyon Malina?
Licho[0K] hi
Malina what
Licho[0K] sup
[PinK]halcyon Malina would you like to volunteer for meeting minutes
Malina of course I do, I always want :D
_koshi_ good, thanks
moving on
springlobby non-compliance with multi-engine protocol (and DisableVersionCheck config)
Licho added that
Licho[0K] yeah there is multi engine lobby protocol change being in place for several months
could you please implement it or at least disableversioncheck by default?
_koshi_ there really isn't
I myself learned of that undocumented stuff in uberserver last week
Licho[0K] reallyI thought you are all aware
aegis told us about that
_koshi_ assuming you refer to openbattleex?
[PinK]halcyon I oppose this, run another server for other engines
Licho[0K] i implemented this after aegis told me
yes openbattleex
its SAME engine
nub
just different verison
[PinK]halcyon version too
Licho[0K] i oppose halcyon being here
[PinK]halcyon you're so annoying licho
[CN]Zydox why?
[PinK]halcyon stop with this shit
Licho[0K] he opposes stuff
[CN]Zydox that's not always a bad thing, imho
[PinK]halcyon it's my right
_koshi_ good job guys you held together a full 3 minutes
[PinK]halcyon it's not my fault..licho does this every meeting
Licho[0K] anyway the stuff is in place and there are 2 issues atm:
1) on windows disableversioncheck is on and it lets people with 87 join dev build -> they desync
2) on windows disableversioncheck is default off and it prevents people with correct devbuild from joining game
*2) on linux
_koshi_ not true, it's default off everywhere
Licho[0K] well default off you mean what
on linux they cannot join even with correct build
because it incorrectly detects mismatch
they have disableversioncheck=0 in their config
and have to manualyl replace it
ideal option would be of course to implement support for multi engine
_koshi_ disableversioncheck =0 --> version is checked
Licho[0K] yes on linux
oh i see it now
_koshi_ no, everywhere
Malina you have to check twice
Licho[0K] it does not check against battle engine version
it checks against server engine version
_koshi_ ofc
[PinK]halcyon pls, host another server for other versions
Licho[0K] thats why on windows it lets people desync
and on linux it forbids them from playing :)
_koshi_ that happens if this shit is not in prtocol and you do whatever
Licho[0K] it is in protocol
ask aegis
its been there for months
i was using title hack before
some people wer eunhappy so he implemented this
it is some extra compat flag
could you implement this or at least disable verison check by default please?
_koshi_ when I say protocol i mean the protocl description, not some uberserver source file
[PinK]halcyon it's not just affecting uberserver..there's springls too
Licho[0K] he generates docs from that source file somehow
_koshi_ don't care
[PinK]halcyon ok, can we have a vote?
[1uP]CarRepairer abstain
Licho[0K] vote on what
the feature exists
im just asking koshi to implement it :)
yes it should be documented
[PinK]halcyon doesn't exist on springls
Licho[0K] whats springls?
[PinK]halcyon stop.it.
Licho[0K] wth is wrong with you people, i care about current server - uberserver - and its players
[CN]Zydox The replacement for TASServer (Spring Lobby Server)
Licho[0K] ok
then it should be implemented there too but no hurry
[PinK]halcyon this requires a vote
Licho[0K] vote on what exactly?
[PinK]halcyon although aegis thinks..he can implement whatever he likes, there are other projects too
23:05
[PinK]halcyon so I suggest we take a vote on it
Licho[0K] other issue with SL is that "server version" should be with trailing .0 too 87.0 per our agreement
_koshi_ there's no documentation or proposal to vote on or to implement as far as I am concerned
Licho[0K] and SL atm demands it to be 87
[PinK]halcyon then we should postphone it until next meeting when there is documentation
_koshi_ please don't jump ahead
Malina so, _koshi_, Are you gonna change everything ?
Licho[0K] im pretty sure ther eis documention somewhere
i read docs before implementing it
you should ask aegis
[CN]Zydox It needs to go into the officila lobby protocol
_koshi_ we've asked him more than once to add it there
he refuses and points to source
Licho[0K] well he is pragmatist
so is satirik and me
[PinK]halcyon ok so, postphone until next meeting, continue to next topic
_koshi_ imo we never should've accepted that practice, but now it's pretty clear its fail
Licho[0K] i need this fixes
as it screwed players
its real issues
SL join ZK games and desync games
_koshi_ and once again it happens because you're using sth everybody else isn't
[PinK]halcyon *there are mor lobbies than SL
Licho[0K] nobody elseI lived under impressions that its set in stone
[PinK]halcyon you didn't document this for the meeting
in fact you added it in the last few hours
Licho[0K] koshi you can read how i works, its rather simple
compat flag + 1 extra argument
if you dont set compat flag you see (incompatible xxx) in game title added by server
_koshi_ that's just further enabling aegis to add undocumented stuff tbh
[CN]Zydox Licho, would you mind appending it to the official protocol?
_koshi_ uhm
[PinK]halcyon atm aegis rushed this change into his implementation, it could be done with custom properties
Licho[0K] sure i will ask aegis where it is and copy paste it
i dont know where it is atm but im sure it was written in text before i started coding it
[PinK]halcyon *done nicer
Licho[0K] no it could not, backwards compatibility halcyon
he done it right
_koshi_ it's not exactly backwards compatible tho as you tell it now
Licho[0K] well he wanted to hide it
or block join
i asked him to let people join anyway
so that they can be instructed by epople ingame
so he changes title instead
[PinK]halcyon you know it's a hack
Licho[0K] how its a hack?
no i dont
[PinK]halcyon it could be done cleanly with custom properties when that is ready
Licho[0K] and how do you provide backwards compatibility with custom properites
for lobbies that have no clue about it
how do you let user know its "something different" ?
also it belongs to battle
it should be part of openbattle
and it is
its perfect implementation as far as i am concerned
[PinK]halcyon !join was a perfect implementation as far as you were concerned too
_koshi_ geez
Licho[0K] no it wasnt, i always wanted server side support
[PinK]halcyon propertiesdefine could use a backward compatible way for older clients
Licho[0K] that means server has to process this property differently
defeating the prupose of properties
and making this hack
[PinK]halcyon it's a temporary thing
that code can be removed in the future
Licho[0K] also you can run into issues when you need to open battle and start instantly
[PinK]halcyon your proposal cannot
Licho[0K] before proeprties are set for example
or something like that
also you need to read this proeprty from all battles
_koshi_ imo until this is added to protocol aegis needs to change the compat implementation so openabttle is not relayed for engine revs incompatible with current server wide
Licho[0K] its perfectly natural in battle
nah i disagree
it would be much bigger problem
if you want to do that run separate srever
dont want to split battles
_koshi_ don't follow how this would split battles if I would never see a battle that is incompat for me
Licho[0K] yeah
so community would be split
[PinK]halcyon let's not have multiple systems for properties, if custom properties is pegged for the future, use that
Licho[0K] ZK would not see BA
BA would not see ZK
about 50% of battles played are now on dev build of engine
it would be hidden
and ZK would lose all SL players
[PinK]halcyon um
at this point, you could run your own server..
Licho[0K] sreiously
[PinK]halcyon well yeahwhy not
Licho[0K] im losing my patience here
get this guy out
or im out too
[PinK]halcyon :D
this is why I say put it to vote
23:19
_koshi_ Licho[0K]: you would loose all linux SL players anyhow since there simply is no way for me to download any given engine version
Licho[0K] thats ok koshi
you only need to alert user
[PinK]halcyon no it's not okey
Licho[0K] and let him join if he has the version
atm problem is you dont let them join with correct version :)
and let them join with incorrect
linuxers have simple 2 lines to build correct spring
we send it to them
[PinK]halcyon build spring?
..
_koshi_ that's not correct licho
[PinK]halcyon c'mon licho most people don't have a build environment setup
Licho[0K] its one package
as i say its 2 lines
[PinK]halcyon not really
_koshi_ if you tell them to replace the global install you're esentially fucky any other game
Licho[0K] that install and run eveyrthing
they dont install globla one
it installs in different folder
[PinK]halcyon have you even played on linux man
Licho[0K] they then change sl to point to different folder
[PinK]halcyon speechless
[CN]Zydox Doesn't hat screw up every other game for that user?
_koshi_ yes
[PinK]halcyon yes
Licho[0K] nah they know it and they can switch back
you can warn them
which is all thats needed
you have version X battle wants version Y
and let user solve it
[PinK]halcyon um what you are proposing is ludicrous and would ruin experience for many linux users
Licho[0K] im pretty sure that letting people join with incorrect version
and preventing them to join with correct
ruins it far more
which is current state
[PinK]halcyon you can't juggle installs on linux
Licho[0K] as it turns out all linux zk players did it just fine
its been live for 2 days and all went fine
biggest issue was digging that SL config switch
[PinK]halcyon and the next dev engine version?
Licho[0K] what you meanZK will swap to whatever build makes game work fine preferably the "server" one
[PinK]halcyon there is no such thing as building spring in 2 lines
Licho[0K] there is
read forums
[PinK]halcyon no
which linux distro
Licho[0K] http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27860
[PinK]halcyon this only works on the debian family
Licho[0K] irrelevant
[PinK]halcyon and it's incomplete
Licho[0K] doe snot matter how hard it is
[PinK]halcyon it is not irrelevant
Licho[0K] what matters is current state is more broken
than the state after fix
_koshi_ that' actually overrides the package install licho
Licho[0K] refusing to join with correct version is bad
as is allowin gto join with incorrect
[PinK]halcyon good luck doing that on another distro
Licho[0K] in fact it cannot be more broken
ok koshi didnt know that but they can reinstall package right?
[1uP]CarRepairer i talked to abma who will consider adding engine downloading to pr-downloader
_koshi_ won't do anything
[1uP]CarRepairer even though as you say linux is more complicated for engine builds
_koshi_ unless that install is removed licho
[PinK]halcyon you can't just download the engine
_koshi_ it will override the package install
Licho[0K] ok then instructions should be changed to remove prior package
[PinK]halcyon what koshi is saying
Licho[0K] anyway thats irrelevant to the issue at hand
[PinK]halcyon it's not
_koshi_ it really isn't licho and it's the core of why we have no multi engine stuff in SL
Licho[0K] i dont ask you to make downloader
just fix damn version checking
[PinK]halcyon this also goes for other linux lobbies
_koshi_ with current engine build setup there's no sane way to keep more than one global install
Licho[0K] i know it
[PinK]halcyon linux cannot even handle multiple unitsync
libunitsync.so will have one path
your scripts would have to change it depending on game
Licho[0K] soFind a different solution or just fix checking and let it be the way it is
i dont care if you have 1 or million version on linux
[PinK]halcyon also compile process takes long
Licho[0K] just let users join with god damn correct verison
[PinK]halcyon installing the official package takes 1 minute maybe
building could take 30 min
_koshi_ the checking isn't broken and any game can distribute it's own global config for SL
there you can disable version chekcing
Licho[0K] fine i will run my own server then
bye
[PinK]halcyon bye
next topic?
[CN]Zydox Hmm, my AH handles multiple version on linux
Next point would be the account e-mail link
A vote on that one
_koshi_ alright
[CN]Zydox I feel it's lacking documentation regarding how multiple accounts with the same e-mail is handled
_koshi_ you had sth for that
right
did we consider that last time?
[CN]Zydox A possible solution would be to add User as a param to LOSTPASSWORD
So it would be "LOSTPASSWORD [CN]Zydox Zydox@Zydox.co.uk"
_koshi_ iirc we wanted to keep username out of the cmd
[PinK]halcyon that makes sense
_koshi_ so you can recover if you forget username
[CN]Zydox It was just to prevent spamming, afaik
_koshi_ which people saw more likely than forgetting email
[CN]Zydox So that I couldn't issue it for you, and everyone else on the server
I'm open to other suggestions though, but I think the system should be able to handle multiple accounts with the same e-mail
For Autohosts and users with multiple computers...
23:35
[PinK]halcyon and users with irc accounts too
_koshi_ hmm?
[PinK]halcyon I think hoijui has one of those
_koshi_ ah, the irc bridge
[CN]Zydox [AG]Abma & amba_irc and so on
_koshi_ those are normal lobby accounts
[PinK]halcyon we want to keep the ability for users to have multiple accounts on one emailagreed?
[CN]Zydox +11
+11
Bah
+1
_koshi_ as long as email is optional, yes
[CN]Zydox Yes, it should be
_koshi_ alright, vote on: add mandatory username to LOSTPASSWORD
+0
[CN]Zydox +1
[PinK]halcyon sec, how about keeping username out
and sending all accounts?
[CN]Zydox Perhaps add another command like "LOSTACCOUNT [Email]" whould would send the accounts
[1uP]CarRepairer sorry to interrupt but i'd like to bring up a point even if it's not on the agenda: voting rights should belong to people whose lobby clients and autohosts are actually used by a significant number of spring users (this excludes me). there is something serious going on right now with licho and you should all heed what i say here
[PinK]halcyon i'm not sure if it's supposed to send an email with the password or if you click a confirmation link, if a link, you could have multiple links for each account
23:40
[CN]Zydox Would become a long list for the AURelaySlave
[PinK]halcyon hm..but forgetting your account is a real problem that many users have
especially if you have been inactive for a while
[CN]Zydox That's why I'd add the LOSTACCOUNT option
I'd assume some knows their password, just forgotten their account name...
[PinK]halcyon ok but, currently we add new commands by writing cmd proposal first
[CN]Zydox But perhaps that just happens to me...
[PinK]halcyon then voting on them
so..
[CN]Zydox Well, this discussion just started now
[PinK]halcyon yeah
[CN]Zydox I would say that the current proposal should be extended with support for multi accounts
Before we approve it
[PinK]halcyon any volunteer to do that?
zydox?
[CN]Zydox I suck at git, but I can help hoi
[PinK]halcyon k
[CN]Zydox I'll try to get it done before next meeting
_koshi_ k
now, [1uP]CarRepairer, got more to say ?
[1uP]CarRepairer nope
[PinK]halcyon I think that could wait til after the meeting, maybe licho calmed down then
[CN]Zydox Soo, next vote... on the SAYDATA proposal?
_koshi_ with now 4 people actively here we're actully bewlow our self set limit
[CN]Zydox ok, so skip that point for next meeting?
[PinK]halcyon isn't the limit for the meeting start?
I think Malina is here
so that would make 5
Malina here)
[PinK]halcyon good
next topic : -find a name for the Inter-lobby-client data exchange protocol-
a1983 me too )
Malina just bla
[CN]Zydox Lurkers: Activate
[PinK]halcyon any suggestions?
[CN]Zydox Isn't that the SAYDATA* ?
[PinK]halcyon yes
it's a formality, to have a name to refer to it bu
*by
[CN]Zydox which Licho objected that we changed between the two last meetings
a1983 Client Protocol?
[CN]Zydox https://github.com/spring/LobbyProtocol/compare/saydata
[PinK]halcyon any other suggestions?
client2client or user2client?
[CN]Zydox I like Inter-lobby-client protocol
a1983 Realy I think - that Inter-lobby-client protocol is ok )
[PinK]halcyon c2c protocol sounds kind of nice
lots of hyphens there :)
[CN]Zydox I think ppl will refer to it as SAYDATA in the end anyways...
[PinK]halcyon but ok..vote between client protocol or inter-lobby client protocol?
a1983 yeah
[PinK]halcyon those for client protocol?
+1
a1983 -1
[CN]Zydox +0
[PinK]halcyon 2 votes missingaway mode vote 0:)
_koshi_ -1
a1983 I think other not interested )
[PinK]halcyon k so -1 client protocol, vote for inter-lobby client protocol?
[CN]Zydox +1
[PinK]halcyon +0
_koshi_ +1
[PinK]halcyon one more?
a1983 +1
[PinK]halcyon k so 3 for, 1 abstain, 1 away
inter-lobby protocol it is then
[PinK]halcyon next topic - vote for the SAYDATA* protocol proposal
[CN]Zydox +1
[PinK]halcyon +1
a1983 why so many SAY* command?
Can we do one SAYDATA commnad?
[PinK]halcyon they send to different places
saydata to one user
a1983 ah - k
then +1
00:03
[PinK]halcyon koshiMalina?
if we have only 3 ppl, we should end the meeting
_koshi_ +1 to hoijui;s current doc stuff, yes
[PinK]halcyon ok, Malina??
Malina +
Clogger I am still here
Rebooting pc
a1983 so - next?
[PinK]halcyon car - vote on SAYDATA* protocol proposal?
00:07
Malina koshi can vote 3 times in a row :D
[1uP]CarRepairer abstain
[PinK]halcyon k so, 4 for, 2 abstain, protocol passed then
00:09
_koshi_ (that's just my irc cleint auto connect sutff, sorry)
[PinK]halcyon I suggest we skip 'add ueberserver stuff to protocol?' for next week
maybe aegis or hoijui has some input on it and they are not present
a1983 Yes. I think we need hoijui and aegis for that
[PinK]halcyon the next topic is 'decoupling account control from lobbyserver (for integration with external stuff like desura, fb, zk etc)' which was proposed by axiomatic but he seems to not be here
or is that koshisame color..
_koshi_ that was licho's point
i just moved it
Malina I am sorry guys, where is Licho ?
[PinK]halcyon aha
Malina :D
[PinK]halcyon well since he wrote no documentation..we really don't know what he means
could only speculate :)
Malina he just left ?
a1983 yes
_koshi_ I think we can let the official meeting end here for today
a1983 Agree
[PinK]halcyon agree
[CN]Zydox Agree
_koshi_ alright, meeting ends here -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Malina nice
Results ?
[CN]Zydox A quick 105min meeting :)
[PinK]halcyon Malina you could write up a summary
and run the script
pm me if you need log
Summary:
[*]SpringLobby non-compliance with multi-engine protocol (and DisableVersionCheck config)
[*]SpringLobby non-compliance with full engine version name in server data
[PinK]halcyon loves trolling
Licho[0K] left and will make his own server.
So, we don't have server anymore
[*]Vote for account recovery stuff
Delayed until next meeting
[*]Add ueberserver stuff to protocol?
Inter-lobby Client Protocol Accepted
[*]Decoupling account control from lobbyserver (for integration with external stuff like desura, fb, zk etc)
Delayed until next meeting