Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18 - Page 3

Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

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abma
Spring Developer
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by abma » 22 Mar 2012, 03:15

aegis wrote: Lobby moderators cannot currently ban users. Leaving the interface disabled is entirely the wrong thing to do.
did you look into the code?
Have you forgotten who I am? o_O

nobody complained since half a year?!

index.php:

Code: Select all

<?php require("inc/head.php") ?>

<?php
  echo "Hello!";
?>

<?php require("inc/footer.php") ?>
strange files:

dumprenames.sh?
phpinfo.php
test.php
notifs.php
notifs2.php

uhm... that really looks like some testing/develop/... but not stable / production page/script. sorry...

i can help to clean that up, but i currently have no clue what these php-scripts should do...
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by Forboding Angel » 22 Mar 2012, 09:10

delete phpinfo.php, phpinfo() should NEVER be in a location where general public can execute it. phpinfo() outputs all server info as well as versions and stuff. Useful for if you're checking phpini settings and stuff, or working on various php apps, but otherwise, you're doing a hacker's job for them.
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aegis
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Joined: 11 Jul 2007, 17:47

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by aegis » 22 Mar 2012, 17:14

hoijui wrote:or introduce lobby commands for ban management? These could at worst be executed "manually" by moderators.
introduce lobby commands? sounds like a good way for me to be verbally abused a year or two later by people who've forgotten about this thread.
abma wrote:uhm... that really looks like some testing/develop/... but not stable / production page/script. sorry...
hoijui wrote:yes, the whole TASServer history (minus the libraries) was importet into git, including the webinterface
even if admins have added debug scripts over the years - db analysis scripts etc - doesn't mean the core app isn't fully functional. not sure why you didn't talk to me.

oh yeah. that thing where people apparently don't have any respect for my position anymore.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007, 09:51

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by hoijui » 22 Mar 2012, 18:46

aegis wrote:
hoijui wrote:or introduce lobby commands for ban management? These could at worst be executed "manually" by moderators.
introduce lobby commands? sounds like a good way for me to be verbally abused a year or two later by people who've forgotten about this thread.
could you explain that? i don't get you here.
aegis wrote:
abma wrote:uhm... that really looks like some testing/develop/... but not stable / production page/script. sorry...
hoijui wrote:yes, the whole TASServer history (minus the libraries) was importet into git, including the webinterface
even if admins have added debug scripts over the years - db analysis scripts etc - doesn't mean the core app isn't fully functional. not sure why you didn't talk to me.

oh yeah. that thing where people apparently don't have any respect for my position anymore.
... same.
talk to you about what? about having imported the webinterface from SVN to git?
why should abma tell you that some code that was removed from TASServer source is ugly, in his view?
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aegis
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Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by aegis » 22 Mar 2012, 19:11

I've extended the lobby commands for ban/unban to work with the legacy ban interface, and updated the mysql server address. I'll test it and push it live if I have any time tonight.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by hoijui » 22 Mar 2012, 21:23

what lobby commands?
and what is the legacy ban interface? (and what is the new one then?)
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aegis
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Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by aegis » 23 Mar 2012, 18:27

legacy = tasserver-compatible one.
new = still-unused full-sql backend.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by hoijui » 23 Mar 2012, 20:19

hoijui wrote:what lobby commands?
... and what is the SQL interface used by? and other set of PHP pages? the same ones adapted? something totally different?
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by AF » 26 Mar 2012, 16:09

I'd like to tip my support to Licho/Aegis.

Both have been a pleasure to work with in the past, and I cannot think of a single conversation with the two in the last year that hasn't be informative and straightforward ( though I admit I haven't kept much in touch with Aegis preferring instead to continue my policy of quiet development is quiet ).

I can even testament to Aegis providing additional means of communication. Why it was on Sunday morning I was half naked asleep in bed with a 'friend' when my phone rang, and lo and behold, a wild Aegis appeared purporting to be called 'Bob' said hello. It's not often you're given a courtesy wake up call by the lobby administrator, nevermind such an entertaining greeting. I just wish 'Bob' had been more forward in his advances, he sounded rather handsome.

Anyways, Licho is perfectly right to be angry, I'd be pissed off, all i can say are the following two things:

The whole idea of:

One spring install to rule them all, One spring install to find them,
One spring install to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

Style installs on Windows and Linux are silly outside of development. Now that we have games maturing it's an untenable position. Sure if you want to develop things its great, and we're all developers, but, players aren't, and we need to set things up for players. Forb as I'm aware is the nearest to achieving this on Linux but he would know more, and Licho has gotten pretty far under windows in his own way. Whatever happened to the Zero-K linux package or the BA linux package with their own islands of spring engine binaries and dependencies, drawing from the common pool of maps/contents?

I also have the one phrase for Licho:

Welcome to the club

I've built ~30 bots of varying kinds for the lobby, some public some not public, my own lobby client (and many smaller experiments variants and rival codebases that never made it to the v1 stage), even attempted my own server and protocol. But all of that is worthless. Unless I have my own lobby or server project in active development, then all that time and experience is deemed worthless, only what you did this week/month appears to count, which is incompatible with my current slow development cycles out of plain view. It doesn't matter if I tried the proposed command privately in experiments or if I have a better method I never put forward for other reasons until now.

Q: Who noticed Protobot sitting in my channels silently updating out of view the last 6 months?

So just as much, Lichos massive financial contributions are worthless in the current status quo, his protocol modifications of the past, his bots, his various lobby and web based infrastructure, are all swept under the carpet, because he didn't make a brand new lobby with a web 2.0 name in the last 3 months, and his large powerful position means his opinion needs to be dampened and muffled to counterbalance so everybody can be equal. But not everybody is equal.

Not everybody has invested and researched as much time money and effort, but they all expect to be treated as equals. When you lump everyone together and say that they're all going to vote, and that the decision is binding and it forces the point, you'll reach contention.

As I said before these meetings, it won't work, anyone can do anything they want, and there's nothing stopping them going off and implementing things anyway. I bet that Satirik would be the most likely, but I was wrong. That was my warning, and if kept in mind you could have avoided it, instead you alienated the person in the best position to do it, and now that it's happening people aren't happy, and you're all surprised...

This meeting will not work as it currently does so long as you don't account for:
  • Problems that affect major stakeholders being ignored because they don't affect everybody. Lichos large amount of nonstandard functionality is an example, ignoring it or discarding it is not in the interests of the greater whole
  • Developers with non public projects - Quiet developers are quiet, you won't have a horde of new projects suddenly appear out of nowhere if they decide to ragequit before you know they exist, or if they're alienated before they make their first code drop. I've seen this happen 2 or 3 times to projects that nobody would knew about until I announced their death and posted screenshots both in Lobby and AI development.

    One of the privilledges of screaming and hyping loudly is that your very visible to these people and they talk to you, and I'm sure since I stepped away from AFLobby that this trend has no died, afterall NOTAlobby had to have had testers at some point? Who did Cheeselobby get shared with before it was put out there?
I shall say no more on these subjects.
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koshi
Lobby Developer
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007, 16:15

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Post by koshi » 26 Mar 2012, 16:13

We've moved on.
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