Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
Posts: 4342
Joined: 22 Sep 2007, 09:51

Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by hoijui » 12 Feb 2012, 23:22

current suggestion:
once a week, sunday evening, 19:30 CET (~= GMT+1)

details can be changed during the first meeting, like how often, what day, what exact time, what % or # of devs is required for hte meeting to start, ...

(Cheesecan suggested next Wed. 15. Feb 2012 21:30, but we already know that the russians cant join there, while they can at 19:30, sunday)

and...
sorry, i forgot that sunday is today.
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danil_kalina
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by danil_kalina » 13 Feb 2012, 07:17

we can every day at 19:30 CET
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Cheesecan
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005, 21:30

Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by Cheesecan » 13 Feb 2012, 11:52

Need a meeting agenda if meeting is to accomplish anything useful. Decisions shouldn't be made on the spot.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by hoijui » 13 Feb 2012, 12:27

good idea :-)

for the engine dev meeting, we use an etherpad for that purpose.
i created a new one which we could use for lobby dev meeting, and PM'ed it to all lobby devs i could think of right away. please PM me if i forgot you (and you are a lobby-dev).

about the place....
i guess we use a lobby channel, as they can be accessed through lobbies and IRC (using an IRC-Bridge).
for nowe, lets say: #lobbydev
non-lobby-devs should online join if they were invited by a lobby-dev.

outcomes of meeting will of course somehow have to be made available ot the public.
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BrainDamage
Lobby Developer
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006, 13:56

Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by BrainDamage » 13 Feb 2012, 13:48

this friday i will not be able to be present, probably next one ( not that i am very active anyway ... )
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koshi
Lobby Developer
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007, 16:15

Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by koshi » 13 Feb 2012, 13:52

Eh, Sunday BD
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BrainDamage
Lobby Developer
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by BrainDamage » 13 Feb 2012, 13:58

everyone else in the other thread was speaking of friday, bah, my fault for not reading the OP
sunday i should be able to be present
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by AF » 16 Feb 2012, 14:39

The original Betalord AF Hollowsoul meetings seemed very productive, we all managed to agree on a number of things.

None of these things were ever implemented or tested. For example, we all agreed on using PNG for game icons. No lobby ever added support, thus no game ever added the icons. What's more most of the discussion about things like which format to use was geared towards what format and spec would mean the least work for you personally. Betalord pushed for bitmap because it'd mean the least work for him, AFLobby already had jpeg/png support built in, and hollow didn't really care.

In practise the only methods of persuasion that have worked are:
  • Woo I'm Aegis and I need to kill TASServer, what feature would you like in uberserver, noble lobby developer? (Aegis ftw)
  • Forum threads (notable examples include the generic battle options and changes to bitfields)
  • Lichos 1 to 1 lobbying
  • Authoritarian server development (Remember in the early days when Betalord would add protocol commands to implement tasclient features we didn't know about?
  • Aggressive development (forcing a standard by implementing it and making it the defacto standard before other lobbies can get an implementation out the door)
Meetings in the present will not work because:
  • Licho has invoked too many workarounds, most changes will mean either Licho doing the most work to re-engineer, or everybody adopting elements of his work arounds
  • Inneffective non-technical administration and policy making, we can keep the server ticking quite well, but history has proven that policy only changes when it is massively abused in such a way that it makes moderators lives unbearable or it breaks the server/exploits crashes lobbies
  • Satirik, he will do what he likes, if he finds a proposal everybody else agrees on to be abhorrent he'll ignore it. He's done it in the past and he'll do it again, and he's perfectly within his rights to do so.
  • Springlobby development isn't what it used to be. Have they implemented !join yet? It's been months...
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Cheesecan
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by Cheesecan » 16 Feb 2012, 18:03

As in any democratic system, someone who chooses not to exercise their right to vote is effectively losing the best chance they have of influencing decision making.

Someone who chooses not to follow the rulings might as well run on non-official servers because what they are saying is that they have exclusive rights in deciding what is right and that the community majority is wrong.

So it is this simple to solve, assuming that spring devs are behind this meeting group and that there is support from lobby server devs (mainly aegis and hoijui). If there is not, the whole meeting idea should just be dismantled because it is of no use to anyone.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by hoijui » 16 Feb 2012, 22:57

please just ignore AF. i mean...
he just wrote how he did fail huge in the past himself, and then goes on like "you all are at least as stupid as me so :P :P :P you gonna fa-ail, you gonna fa-ail!"
and worst of it all, he likely was not even drunk when writing this.
AF, if you try to do trouble more in here, i gonna call daddy and he... you know, that thing you don't like.
and whan i say try to do trouble, i mean post, at all.
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danil_kalina
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by danil_kalina » 16 Feb 2012, 23:12

It is actually spring comes :P
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Cheesecan
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by Cheesecan » 16 Feb 2012, 23:13

"Ignore AF" is the new trend, the more you say it the more he brags about himself and says we're all doing it rong.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by hoijui » 18 Feb 2012, 22:51

i can't be at home, but will try to be online tomorow (sunday 19. feb 2012) at 19:30. if i am not, you should still do the meeting of course, as long as enough people are around.
i don't know what a good amount would be, lets say at least 4 people from at least 3 projects/teams, and if possible at least one lobby server dev. or more simple.. just at least 4 people? it should be possible to figure out if it makes sense to discuss stuff at all, or if findings will be rejected anyway later on, because all tat took part were from a single team or something.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by AF » 19 Feb 2012, 19:23

My message is simple:

we tried it in the past, it didn't work
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abma
Spring Developer
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by abma » 22 Feb 2012, 18:38

AF wrote:My message is simple:

we tried it in the past, it didn't work
we? did you take part at these meetings? and this time it worked? SCNR :D
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smoth
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Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by smoth » 22 Feb 2012, 21:46

AF wrote:My message is simple:

we tried it in the past, it didn't work
sometimes someone can try with a new approach and it works...
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aegis
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Joined: 11 Jul 2007, 17:47

Re: Lobby*-Devs Meeting *(-Client & -Server)

Post by aegis » 23 Feb 2012, 18:21

tasclient's python scripting makes it possible for us to release a semi-official "get tasclient up to date with the protocol spec" module if we roll out any changes that are too exciting

afaik springlobby didn't implement !join because they (rightfully) said it was an ugly hack.
unfortunately we don't have an official method for that yet which is partially my fault :P
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