Spring RTS Engine

zwzsg, no worries, check your pm. It is not as bad as you would think. we had tested epic EE a long while back but fang wanted to wait a bit.

Oh, I am not sure if you can show what I sent you to every one as it has some units that fang has not really shown to the springers yet. So if you can, unless fang says otherwise keep the shots under your hat :).

Mainly the issue is that everything will look out of proportion, as it does now, in comparison to trees and the maps themselves, if Fang does not scale it down. The units in E&E have a certain conceptual size, which has never been met. Fang is attempting to make them match his original plans and make battles much greater in scale... something I must recommend with a grain of salt after playing excessively with the miniature infantry of 1944. At a particular point, it becomes an icon war, and huge ranges will cause this to happen sooner - but a slight nerf in ranges might keep this effect at bay while holding with the feel of "Epic".

We have to get bigger, higher resolution monitors and turn off icons!!!

I do not think the new version is going to be that bad.

smoth wrote:I do not think the new version is going to be that bad.

You're one of those people who're used to fiddling with the camera while you play (although Gundam is making me better at it, since you practically have to mangle the camera to play it effectively because of the way the White Base blocks your view) - most of us stick to overhead camera most of the time, occaisionally zooming in and out.

If I could I would make a video of the next game of EE I play (epic even)

I may not be the best player there is, but I can go toe to toe with the best and put up a reasonable fight.

I dont think any of these concerns are valid issues.. I never see the icons becuase I have my icon level set to NO.. EE is going to be Half scale..

i think ee looks way to good to play with ta style camera.

By the by, Fang, I'm working on some new icons for the minimap if you want them. You may not use them, but right now, mines are the same size as buildings, and everything looks the same really in Icon mode.

zwzsg wrote: Spring can handle flying units bigger than the map,

*fixed*

I use a tilted overhead camera. Nicer view without the annoyances of rotatable overhead.

Umm, personally I have icons turned off completely. BTW the scale is 50%, in the old epic it was 1/3rd which would be 33% for all you brainiacs out there

TBH unit differentiation is actually easier for me in epic than in the normal version, not to mention the fact that the models have been changed. Also, the epic scale is very easy to get used to, took me less than 10 minutes till my brain had readjusted. The gameplay is much more fun as well.

We have been testing from some time now (little over a week I think) and I haven't seen any complaints yet, however to paraphrase saktoth:

Units could be nothing but square, rectangle, triangle, octagonal, hexigonal, or whatever, and people would still complain about the unit differentiation.

Look the time for making units look more different passed a month ago when fang remodeled all the lv1 stuff, if you missed the boat, too bad and tough shit. The urc lv1 units are so easy to pick out in the new version it's disgusting... And that's a good thing.

It amazes me that you guys seem to think that fang/we just do stuff without even giving it a second thought. By the time you guys have a chance to complain about something it's already been dealt with weeks and sometimes months ago. Give fang and the lot of us a little credit.

Have faith

Having tested a version, I'd like to say that critiscism of this is unfounded. A LOT has changed and you just don't know enough to be able to make any reliable judgements.

The entire scale has changed, new sfx, rebalancing, an entire new side, remodelled units, changed weapons scales, the list goes on.......

In Epic EE, are the buildings resized?

It would be cool for them to not be, but it would further screw balance.

The epic stuff does not really screw any balance. Saying that it will further screw it is really off.

seriously, we have tried it in the past and it worked great. There are some changes that are needed and I am sure one or two people will have complaints about the change but for the most part it is nice and that WILL happen with every change.

My suggestion is to chill and let fang do it, he is working away on it and does not plan on screwing up his mod. In fact.. no moder plans on screwing up their mod.

I heard and I still do hear complaints about the epic coms of gundam. However, those who got over the newness of them love them. Have faith in us, the moders, we have gotten this far, haven't we?

If NI handle anything like i am led to believe, the epic scale should make playing EE well a lot more rewarding: GD really having to think about where to deploy their forces while maintaining supply lines and defending their assets, URC planning elaborate stealth attacks on rear bases and outflanking tank columns, NI blazing past a beleagured (sp?) army and mounting a lightning assault on a resource base, and aliens being all... alien.

If anything, the scaling up of the game will amplify the differences between EE and TA based mods, which is something I, for one, welcome.

pintle wrote:If NI handle anything like i am led to believe, the epic scale should make playing EE well a lot more rewarding: GD really having to think about where to deploy their forces while maintaining supply lines and defending their assets, URC planning elaborate stealth attacks on rear bases and outflanking tank columns, NI blazing past a beleagured (sp?) army and mounting a lightning assault on a resource base, and aliens being all... alien.

If anything, the scaling up of the game will amplify the differences between EE and TA based mods, which is something I, for one, welcome.

Actually, this would be particularly true if the ranges were shortened - on small maps it can be very hard to find any gaps in the enemy defense, even with spies, putting URC at a disadvantage. If firing ranges were correspondingly shrunk, then URC units could more easily squeeze through and work around the powerful GD weaponry.

I am undecided on whether scaling the ranges too would be a good thing. I like the long ranges of the current epic E&E betas, but I also like the balance of E&E as it is now and would like to preserve it. So I am torn.

As for holes, if you were to hit several places at once with artillery, GD will lose at least one of their defense positions. GD is simply too slow to react to several fronts at once. If you really want to exploit GD's weaknesses as URC, build jammer units to stop their powerful artillery, and anti-air to stop their aircraft. after that, mortar a position to death using the vision advantage of your scouts. Depending on the GD player's tech level, they'll probably have cluster bombers. For this reason, have some interceptors nearby to kill the expensive aircraft when they attack you. GD's weaknesses are speed and sight. Exploit them.

I've long hated how I can see 2 llt's in AA near to eachother but out of firing range, even tho you couldnt put 3 llt's from top to bottom or less inbetween the two towers. Its like saying I'm gonna make a gigantic 40 metre high turret and stick a small trebuchet on the top with a max range of 20 metres.

However URC doesnt need to maneouvre between GD tank firing range, they have stealth units for that.

neddiedrow wrote:By the by, Fang, I'm working on some new icons for the minimap if you want them. You may not use them, but right now, mines are the same size as buildings, and everything looks the same really in Icon mode.

I would like a response either way on this. I've got the different forms sketched out, and I'll look into implementing the eventual products if you're going to use them.

sure