Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 08 Aug 2006, 00:11

In what context? Unless Caydr made massive changes in 2.11, they're less cost-effective for assault than Zeuses (due to crappy HP/cost and short range).

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 08 Aug 2006, 00:35

1 mav > phatboy

They arn't as good as people make out for assulting a defencive line if you make sure you terget them before they get in range, but i do agrre, mav's firepower needs to be toned down a bit

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 08 Aug 2006, 00:37

a microed mav can take out a whole group of zeues ^^

their range is slightly longer, and they are faster and can pull back if they get too badly hurt, allowing their regen to really kick in

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 08 Aug 2006, 00:47

Cabbage wrote:a microed mav can take out a whole group of zeues ^^

their range is slightly longer, and they are faster and can pull back if they get too badly hurt, allowing their regen to really kick in

Yes, the Zeus is not a skirmishing unit. They're an assault unit, meant for breaking through defenses that can't move but can shoot back. When you're doing that, HP matters more than anything else, because a unit that can't take hits is worthless. (Except as spam to try and get a BLoD to waste a shot.)

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 08 Aug 2006, 01:31

Cabbage wrote:a microed mav can take out a whole group of zeues ^^
their range is slightly longer, and they are faster and can pull back if they get too badly hurt, allowing their regen to really kick in

hm, one microed peewee can take out a whole group of big berthas

Playing almost only Core I never had big problems to counter them.
Ok, their health regains (only when standing still?) and they kill level 1 swarms quite good but when something gets near them (pyros,...) they lose.
And as already said, Zeus' are made to "flow" into the enemy base, uneffected by defense fire.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 08 Aug 2006, 04:58

Yeah, mavs are only good if you can get them through a hole in defences, if they run into anything remotely resembling heavy firepower they're toast.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 08 Aug 2006, 05:03

Egarwaen Wrote:

Yes, the Zeus is not a skirmishing unit. They're an assault unit, meant for breaking through defenses that can't move but can shoot back.

Where did i state otherwise?

I was merely pointing out a interesting titbit, i'm not some random noob..

Anyway, Mavs's ARE overpowered, in a 1v1 with a bulldog, the bulldog loses without heavily microing the mav, and that can't be right can it? regardless if its for skirmishing or not. If the mav outranged the bulldog then it would be fine, but it dosen't.. It's damage needs to be toned down a bit and its fine imo.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 08 Aug 2006, 05:37

Cabbage wrote:Anyway, Mavs's ARE overpowered, in a 1v1 with a bulldog, the bulldog loses without heavily microing the mav, and that can't be right can it? regardless if its for skirmishing or not. If the mav outranged the bulldog then it would be fine, but it dosen't.. It's damage needs to be toned down a bit and its fine imo.

Um. That's odd. Exactly how much "light" micro did the Mav get?

With both units just standing there shooting at each other, assuming that every shot hits for full damage, the Bulldog should survive with half health. Since the Bulldog has longer range, it should have a distinct edge in a real fight. In fact, I just ran some quick tests, and the Bulldog does survive with half health.

I'm afraid I can't reproduce this. I know my micro sucks, but the Bulldog wins every match-up I've tried with at least half health.

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 08 Aug 2006, 05:57

Well, I didn't see the fight, but I imagine the "light micro" is keeping the mav moving. Not necessarily keeping it out of range or dodging or anything, just keeping it mobile.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 08 Aug 2006, 06:20

Mr.Frumious wrote:Well, I didn't see the fight, but I imagine the "light micro" is keeping the mav moving. Not necessarily keeping it out of range or dodging or anything, just keeping it mobile.

Just tried. Bulldog still survives with 1/4 health, and that's only because the Dragon's Eye that I spawned next to it to keep track of its position ate up two of its shots which would otherwise have killed the Mav, giving it another 2-3 seconds to fire. Mav was moving in circles around the Bulldog and had to draw its weapons to start shooting.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 08 Aug 2006, 06:59

Mavs are not too overpowered IMHO; they might need another 100 metal added to cost, but that's about it.

The thing about mavs is that they take a LOT of micro to be effective. Five mvas charging a group of enemies arent nearly as effective as one mav microed properly.

Mavs are only dangerous alone or in groups of 3-4. (suitable IMHO for their name, lol)

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 08 Aug 2006, 07:37

A few Mavs backing up a sniper is a wonderful combo.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 08 Aug 2006, 09:25

I dislike Mavericks, but I don't think they're overpowered at all.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 08 Aug 2006, 12:26

Egarwaen Wrote:

Um. That's odd. Exactly how much "light" micro did the Mav get?

With both units just standing there shooting at each other, assuming that every shot hits for full damage, the Bulldog should survive with half health. Since the Bulldog has longer range, it should have a distinct edge in a real fight. In fact, I just ran some quick tests, and the Bulldog does survive with half health.

I'm afraid I can't reproduce this. I know my micro sucks, but the Bulldog wins every match-up I've tried with at least half health.

I just checked to make sure i wasnt spurting drivel, and in my test the bull dog and mav both had radar coverage, and hte mav had to walk into range to attack. I tested twice, and frist time round the bulldog won with less than 800 health, and just semi random clicks for micro. Second time round the bulldog lost, running my mav around in an eclipse shape to avoid shots.

Running it round in circles isnt heavy micro in my eyes, but i guess everyone has diffrent views.

I'm not saying mav's need to be smashed with the nerf bat to bugger and back, i just think their damage is a little too much on the high side.

BoredJoe · Post by **BoredJoe** » 08 Aug 2006, 14:34

i just did some testing with mavs, if they're not overpowered, why can i own an orcone with 20 micro'd mavericks? just for comparison:

1 orcone = 26k metal, 856k energy
20 Mavs = 13k metal, 244k energy

not to add in the cost of going level 3 and the fact that an orcone has 3 times the HP of 20 mavs

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 08 Aug 2006, 14:43

mavs are perfect now imo. HLTS and defense still pwn them, as do buldogs (splash, range).

Try 5 buldogs vs 5 mavs... mavs die like flies. Any microed unit with more range can kill mav .

I still like them if i have 2-3 because microing them out of battle is VERY rewarding :)

All ground and air balance is quite good atm - well maybe arm lvl1 vehicles still lack compared to kbots or core lvl1veh. Flash is too weak... maybe consider making lvl1 vehcile pland 100m cheaper.

Zagupi · Post by **Zagupi** » 08 Aug 2006, 15:25

BoredJoe, Orcone is supposed to be overpriced (Krogoth as well). You could try the same thing with Banthas vs. same cost of Mavericks.

Zagupi · Post by **Zagupi** » 08 Aug 2006, 15:54

I tested that myself.
14 Mavs kill a single Bantha, and 28 kill 2.
Maybe it's because mavs have impressive firepower, they can easily kill single powerful enemies, and they lose to multiple enemies because of their lack of strong armour.

BoredJoe · Post by **BoredJoe** » 08 Aug 2006, 16:29

Zagupi wrote:BoredJoe, Orcone is supposed to be overpriced (Krogoth as well). You could try the same thing with Banthas vs. same cost of Mavericks.

sorry but they're basically as cost effective as annihilators, which have almost a sole purpose of taking out the big bad units, but they're not stationary, they don't require you to have lots of energy storage and fusions, they're fast and also very effective attacking units

ginekolog wrote:Try 5 buldogs vs 5 mavs... mavs die like flies. Any microed unit with more range can kill mav .

4 bulldogs=cost of 5 mavs..i just tested 5 mavs v 4 bulls - depending on how much micro you use mavs can either own the bulldogs with about 2 mavs surviving or the bulldogs will just about win. Imo vehicles should be more powerful than kbots given their climbing/speed/size(bulky and hard to path) disadvantages...bulldogs are supposed to be big tanks with lots of health so they can push past things pretty easily without too much damage, but mavs with 1/3 of their hp muller their hp in seconds

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 08 Aug 2006, 17:22

BoredJoe wrote:i just tested 5 mavs v 4 bulls - depending on how much micro you use mavs can either own the bulldogs with about 2 mavs surviving or the bulldogs will just about win. Imo vehicles should be more powerful than kbots given their climbing/speed/size(bulky and hard to path) disadvantages...bulldogs are supposed to be big tanks with lots of health so they can push past things pretty easily without too much damage, but mavs with 1/3 of their hp muller their hp in seconds

And what happens if you micro the Bulldogs too?

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11