Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 18 Sep 2006, 17:53

^Mabye the hub can leave a wreck, but destroying it woudl destroy the attatched buildings as well?

Anyways, on the bomber fuel, 1 fuel is always used prer second, but by giving more than enough fuel you can achive the same effect as waht you posted.

ex

fuel=1x10^10
fuelToShoot=5x10^9

It's never going to be in the air that long...

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 18 Sep 2006, 18:01

Ok to the fuelthing but what do you mean with attached buildings??
I understood it that way, that the Hub is just some Nanotower that can build factorys and other stuff of its tech level.
If you mean a big explosion to destroy everything near it, that would look a bit silly I think

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 18 Sep 2006, 18:08

The point is that since the hub is now the biggest part of the cost of a factory people will build one, build the factory and then reclaim the hub which makes it cheaper to get factories if you want only one resulting in easier teching.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 18 Sep 2006, 18:42

@knorke the hub/factory interaction would be the same as the superweapons are now. The hub can build the factory but only in a small radius around it. The hub itself is given a powerful death explosion so if it get destroyed it takes out all the nearby factories. (u can assume that the superweapons/facs are connected to their parent building underground so thats why they get destroyed...)

KDR has nailed down the biggest weakness of this system. Nothing prevents people from reclaiming the hub when they are done (unless they plan on building more). Of course that comes with a price in time management because if u destroy their fac and they have no hub, it'll take longer for them to rebuild... Not exactly sure how much of a detterrent that is against hub reclaiming (and there isn't a way i can think of that will prevent u from getting the full cost of a unit back when u reclaim it) so this is still an issue.

My biggest worry is that if u gonna limit con assisting with the new tags and introduce the hub system its gonna cause a loss of interest as the general flow of the game is disrupted. People are use to building a straight fac and are use to con assisting. I think u should do one at a time rather than both (of course we can beta all this so finding out isn't that hard).

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 18 Sep 2006, 18:44

I doubt it'll cause too much distruption though, since you can tell the hub to build things before it's finished. The only thing missing is being able to give orders before the building is placed.

Edit: my word, I can't spell...

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 18 Sep 2006, 19:30

@j5mello
Actually i pointed out the hub-reclaim thing..
Just thought there was already an solution, i dont like the big boom solution.

Corbeau · Post by **Corbeau** » 18 Sep 2006, 20:23

Just make it non-reclaimable. Yeah, it'd be slightly annoying, but it'd head off the hub-factory-reclaim issue.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Sep 2006, 20:59

oh tthats right that tag works in the next version

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 18 Sep 2006, 22:36

corbeau ftw..

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:01

while Im probably wrong, is it me is or is the idea of aircraft having fuel, real poor? like a terrible idea?

1) with springs interface it would produce lots and lots of micro management.
2) it makes aircraft more like artillery.. build a defence line, build a airbase to knock out enemy defence line and airbase, move foward etc.
3) it makes aircraft less cool
4) interceptors need to be able to patrol forever without micro management

I know its not my mod but just because its possible, im still pretty sure this is a great way to bung up a great mod... having multiple control groups for groups of refuling aircraft on top of the already hectic speed will crush my micro even more

the horror.. the horror..

oh, and the hub thing sounds not so good, for all the reasons people have listed... not only over complicating a mod thats currently a perfect mix of eco and combat micro management, but also just being another tier which will then be reclaimed.

and the com is already a bit weak, cutting his turret building will render him useless for all but factory assist minutes in. if he cant build turrets, he must be able to build specialist mex (armed) or cloak, or SOMTHING.
just an oppinion.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:10

Ivory, your over dramatizing it.

Interceptors can still patrol, they auto land and resume when they need fuel, no micro needed there, they also return to base and ignore orders till they are refueled as well, so no problems there. It's all automated dude, don't worry so much.

Actually a hub makes everything Very simple. Build hub, then build how many factories you want for about 100 metal a pop = not bad. Plus, as I understand it the facories will build super quick. The hub will be non reclaimable, so give up that idea right now.

The com is far from weak. Play journier sometime, he loves to turret rush, what's worse, is he's really really good at it.

You act as though we never do any testing... Chill dude, it will be much better. Have some faith

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:15

1v0ry_k1ng wrote: 1) with springs interface it would produce lots and lots of micro management.

No, aircraft will automaticly land, refuel, and resume their previous orders when they run out of fuel

2) it makes aircraft more like artillery.. build a defence line, build a airbase to knock out enemy defence line and airbase, move foward etc.

Aircraft will likely have a fair bit more range than artillery, so while this would be technicaly true, in practice it may feel quite different. Besides, you can still do long range attacks into the heart of the enemy's base.

3) it makes aircraft less cool

Your logic is flawed, it makes aircraft more cool.

4) interceptors need to be able to patrol forever without micro management

This is a re-iteration of point 1.

And yeah, the comm is a bloody bunker as is, he needs some tweaking.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:19

Case in point. The other day fang was watching a game and one guy turret rushed, and at one point was putting up turrets in an enemies base.

The comm was never intended to leave your own base, PERIOD (this is the mod design, so don't bother arguing it, because you will be wrong regardless), and until that status is reached, the comm will be nerfed and nerfed again.

Firecrack it it on the head.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:25

Stating the Obvious: What about making turrets do a lot of extra damage to Commanders? That'll make them able to stand up to combat units (and so surviving a rush), but make them poor at creeping into enemy territory.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:27

can the GD hub have built in GUNZ like the extractor? and the URC has legs and can move v e r y s l o w ly? or cloak hell I dont know im a GD communist.

and fuel wont make aircraft cooler dude, I like planes with nuclear reactors. but if they auto re-fuel and continue orders thats cool. oh and thanks for the GD tips all round to all concerned, forgot about Ion tanks, they are suprisingly own. but saying "LOL, urals PWN!!" isnt really that helpful cuz while im sure a line of urals DO own, I never tend to have the resources in a losing battle to whizzing out urals, and its l1-l2 where i get hopelessly out manuvered. aircraft may well be the key, although it means getting to l2 laser tanks and missle tanks slower (which is vital). I think defences in this mod are balanced enough. one defence = 2 of the equivalent unit of its level. thats far better than XTA hllts spanking all comers in my book, and is counterable but still useful in chokeys.

is it better to keep a line of units from factories moving direct to the frontline, or amass them in combat capable groups before doing so? on one hand, they are always around if moving in a slow line throught my base to the front, but on the other, when they do have to go to battle early, they are in single file and get spanked.. but thats better than the mex's getting it right?

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:37

Egar, special damage instructions are to be avoided at all costs when possible.

Ok ivory, game tip for ya...

Use Medium CANNON TANKS. Use their range. THey PWN! Rocket tanks are nowhere near as capable of laying the smack down as cannon tanks.

Laser tanks will generally die before doing much damage. What in the hell makes you wanna use exclusively rockets, and laser tanks combos? That's just dumb!

Corbeau, was doing that last night, and losing. I told him to stop with the laser tanks and bombards and concentrate on cannon/rocket combos. All of a sudden he started pwning... Gee I wonder why.

What do we have to do to pound it home that the CANNON is GD's main attack unit? It is the mainstay of your force! Use it!

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:38

For both sides, groups in lines is FTW. this is especially true for GD as they are generally outnumbered by an URC opponent worth his stuff.

Ivory the fuel system is handled exactly like the repair system for planes

(i laugh cause that never gets used; When was the last time u saw someone build an airpad? or carrier? ). As soon as they are low on fuel they would seek out an air pad to refuel (and while doing so repair) then go back to whatever it was they were doing. Now that does mean ur gonna have to watch ur air units a bit more closely. For instance if send ur units to attack and during a planes refuel period itst arget gets destroyed the unit will rise up and then immeadiately land after its cleared the pad. This will emphaize using queued orders and the fire and move states (the bombers esp will need extra directions and the ever helpful hold fire so they go back to base when finished, assuming they survive) to help manage ur airforce.

Also those slow moving lvl 2s could be moved faster with air trans. so instead of the massive wagon train u have now ur units would arrive in groups.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:40

j5mello wrote:For both sides, groups in lines is FTW. this is especially true for GD as they are generally outnumbered by an URC opponent worth his stuff.

Ivory the fuel system is handled exactly like the repair system for planes (i laugh cause that never gets used; When was the last time u saw someone build an airpad? or carrier? ). As soon as they are low on fuel they would seek out an air pad to refuel (and while doing so repair) then go back to whatever it was they were doing. Now that does mean ur gonna have to watch ur air units a bit more closely. For instance if send ur units to attack and during a refuel period the target gets destroyed the unit will rise up and then immeadiately land after its cleared the pad. This will emphaize using queueing orders and the fire and move states (the bombers esp will need extra directions and the ever helpful hold fire so they go back to base when finished, assuming they survive)

Just use unit group numbers ctrl+#. THat will make it real easy.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:44

I completly forgot about that whole carrier thing...

I need to try that!

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 18 Sep 2006, 23:46

I dont use Rocket and laser exclusively as such.. I tend to build a cannon, a rocket and a laser and loop that build order. I use L1 for mass cannons and light artillery. (l1 lasers die to easy) the problem with GD isnt the battle itself.. ive seen a line of GD WTFPWN, but I have trouble choosing the site of battle.

l2 laser.. is that actually 4x the damage of l1, or just four lasers? either way it looks so own, especially the way it can target several at once, I always end up over producing it lol.. lasers are so damaging if you can tempt URC with their lower health in range.

seriously, GD armed hubs. How to use GD scout tanks correctly? being visible, its far harder to waz about popping up vital cameras, where URCS just cloaks. the radar is useful, pity it dosnt have mines. it would be nice if it could build minigun turrets to defend advance radar sites from being reclaimed by spidery scouts lol
is the minigun meant to be effective vs air? I thought C&C generals style and threw some up but they got spanked

Spring RTS Engine

Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released