AATA Beta 0.9

knorke · Post by **knorke** » 28 May 2006, 02:07

Thats the paranoid war pig dude!

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 28 May 2006, 02:28

Feel free to try and pose it closer yourself, felix

edit:

some updated views of the standing pose, then!

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 28 May 2006, 05:33

Hey hey hey Flozi, I thought all of us were supposed to be freely critical of each others' work? You guys are certainly critical enough of my models - and I appreciate it, makes me model better.

Those poses look much better.

Whatever happened to the poses Spiked did for the infantry?

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 28 May 2006, 08:18

That latest standing one is very nice. Do those units shoot on the move? Because that could potentially look a little odd with that pose.

The crouch pose looks a bit like a 19th century musketeer pose then a sniper, though.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 28 May 2006, 08:50

Psst Zsinj, all those pics are the same model in the same pose!

Yes they do shoot on the move but only forward -- dem bitchez can't shoot backwards (already tested it out, looks fine), and that's not a Sniper, its a regular infantryman with a Mauser.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 28 May 2006, 14:52

Felix the Cat wrote:Hey hey hey Flozi, I thought all of us were supposed to be freely critical of each others' work? You guys are certainly critical enough of my models - and I appreciate it, makes me model better.

Those poses look much better.

Whatever happened to the poses Spiked did for the infantry?

It was a joke, hence the '

'.

Spiked's poses were designed for his show/hide animation system which complicates UVmapping rather too much.

Zsinj, the poses are based around illustrations from the Soviet SVD sniper rifle manual I have. And actually, they may not be able to fire on the move... unless I do a second walk script and they give us a working implementation of changing max speed. I thought it might be a nice gameplay feature if rifles had to stop to fire, but SMGs could fire on the move.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 29 May 2006, 10:44

Spike, I was referring to the crouch pose on the previous page.

The problem with stopping units from shooting on the move is that Spring isn't really smart enough for it's units to stop when it is time to shoot, then move off again. Might be worth making most of them able to shoot while moving; but give their accuracy a big hit.

Also, I don't know if you know or not, but for SWTA, Gnome managed to get infantry units who packpedal when they move backwards for a few steps, and then turn around and run in that direction. It's a really useful feature, because it means you can put firing arcs on the units, so that they don't fire backwards - but it also means that retreating isn't death. In SWTA, if you attack, those units are committed. If you retreat them, they will turn around, and get shot in the back, which completely defeats the purpose of retreating them.
It's a pretty nifty bit of code.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 29 May 2006, 14:23

My idea was that it would give SMGs a boost vs rifles, but I may end up having riflemen fire (very inaccurately) 'from the hip' on the move as well.

Monkwarrior · Post by **Monkwarrior** » 01 Jun 2006, 10:34

We played this mod for the first time and will play it again the next few days. First impressions:

* the build menu's are very confusing for newcomers like us. They might the same as the "old version" , but they "all look the same" unless you have played this mod many times.
* Damage of stuka's towards their main pray (tanks) seems a bit weak.
* It seemed the artillery is firing at planes (feature or bug ?)

We witnessed many other things too, but are too fresh into this mod to judge them (bugs or features).

Overall impression: very well done.
Congrats to all the gentlemen who have invested many hours into this mod: it is really appreciated.

Greetingz, Monk.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 01 Jun 2006, 14:06

What version from where?

Monkwarrior · Post by **Monkwarrior** » 01 Jun 2006, 14:21

With "old version" I meant the mod or original game (axis & allies) you based this mod on. I was just guessing that you imported or recreated the original menu's from that "old version" / game.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 01 Jun 2006, 18:44

Right, monkwarrior is now on the list of beta testers <_<.

He's playing update 1.6D, which is using the same buildpics as b1.8, and is still kinda buggy on the whole, but certainly getting there.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 01 Jun 2006, 20:45

Ah, thanks for keeping me up-to-date

Buildpics will be redone once the new models and textures are done, so I'm not too concerned there.

I guess I haven't played 1.6D yet myself, because I haven't played a version with aircraft since v0.9 b1.8, if it's using the old weapons with felix's new tank stats this could be the issue. IIRC before it could destroy a Tiger in a couple of passes.

Artillery firing at aircraft is a good point and there are several things to improve it. I will discuss with Nemo.

And cheers.

Monkwarrior · Post by **Monkwarrior** » 02 Jun 2006, 08:34

The mod is certainly shaping up, but until now we only scratched the surface. I just mentioned those first impressions, because that kind of feedback tends to get lost with seasoned testers

Oh and the homepage of this mod is kinda odd.
As if Supreme Commander will have these beautifull units, I guess not

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 03 Jun 2006, 06:04

Just have them not fire when moving. If we made it so they could, it'd be so inaccurate as to be nothing more than a useless chunk of unecessary coding.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 03 Jun 2006, 06:13

Use this:
accuracy=300;

using this tag in a weapon tdf you can set the innacuracy of a weapon. I don't know if it is what you were looking for but it is a shot.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 03 Jun 2006, 07:56

If I have 30 infantry charging at the enemy, I don't want them to not be firing, and I don't want to have to click stop every now and then to make sure they are firing.

30 infantry firing inaccurately while charging are still going to bring down plenty of the enemy, simply because of the "wall of bullets". If we ever manage to get units to be pinned down by fire, this would certainly give those charging infantry a greater chance of getting to where they want too alive.

I'd be all for units that have to stop to fire if my units were intelligent enough to run, stop and let off a shot, then run while they are reloading, then stop and let off another shot, all by themselves. But they aren't; and I think the result will be that riflemen will never be used in AAS.

IIRC, the riflemen in AATA suffered from similar problems, and could never compete with submachine gun infantry, even though riflemen were as common as submachine gunners, and probably more useful in the wide-open combat that is prevalent in Spring...

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 03 Jun 2006, 08:16

the accuracy tag could be used to make the machine gunners miss because it causes the shots to spread... was that not a good idea?

Did I miss the point entirely?

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 03 Jun 2006, 12:25

Warlord Zsinj wrote:If I have 30 infantry charging at the enemy, I don't want them to not be firing, and I don't want to have to click stop every now and then to make sure they are firing.

30 infantry firing inaccurately while charging are still going to bring down plenty of the enemy, simply because of the "wall of bullets". If we ever manage to get units to be pinned down by fire, this would certainly give those charging infantry a greater chance of getting to where they want too alive.

I'd be all for units that have to stop to fire if my units were intelligent enough to run, stop and let off a shot, then run while they are reloading, then stop and let off another shot, all by themselves. But they aren't; and I think the result will be that riflemen will never be used in AAS.

IIRC, the riflemen in AATA suffered from similar problems, and could never compete with submachine gun infantry, even though riflemen were as common as submachine gunners, and probably more useful in the wide-open combat that is prevalent in Spring...

You are imagining it, riflemen shoot on move in OTA. Anyway, now only snipers and MGs will have to stop to fire, which is perfectly fair i think as it prevents them from being hugely overpowered in comparison.

@ Smoth

Yeah, totally missed the point.

Also Spring has some nice tags for reducing accuracy whilst moving and against moving targets. These will be used to ensure that stationary troops have a slight advantage to those advancing.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 03 Jun 2006, 20:59

and in fact, are already in use =)

All weapons have a signifigant inaccuracy while moving. I loosely based this on how much kick a weapon has, so infantry carried MGs, for example, will fire at nearly 45 degree angles to what they're trying to hit, while a rifle only has 5 degrees of inaccuracy while moving. Still, 5 degrees with a single shot is quite a bit, I'm yet to see riflemen do any worthwhile damage on the move. SMGs have a fairly slight inaccuracy - also 5 degrees, I think. BAR is about 15 degrees, pistols are 5 degrees.

Vehicle mounted weapons for a few light vehicles (the ones from the 'demo') also have inaccuracy while moving, but the extent of that is really just based on my guesses, so they're wide open for comments.

As for W_Z's concern that riflemen will be useless - have no fear. They are currently the most cost effective unit in the game. In infantry combat, they really do dominate - until the submachine gunners get close enough to open up, and assuming they're not trying to fight MG42s on an open field, or being outranged by snipers. They also can't lay down as much fire as a few MGs, or at the same range as a mortar, or stratch anything heavier than a light vehicle, ect.

Fear not, infantry will have a place at all stages of the game - to make it otherwise would be a serious mistake on my part.

Edit: Oh, smoth: yeah, the full automatic weapons use sprayangle and burstfire so the shots in a burst spread out.

Spring RTS Engine

AATA Beta 0.9