Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays... - Page 2

Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

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Jazcash
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Jazcash » 25 Dec 2010, 12:55

Downloading now. You should organise a tourney or something, even if it's just a small one, it's fun and gets people interested.
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FLOZi
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by FLOZi » 25 Dec 2010, 20:27

you should maybe post a changelog (e.g. spawning in corner fixed ;)) so people know what has changed
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 25 Dec 2010, 21:03

I posted a "what's new". But I guess you mean specific bugs that were fixed.
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Gota
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Gota » 25 Dec 2010, 23:40

OK...played it.have some criticism.

#1 when you tell a trooper to capture a tower or vehicle it should auto load into it.

#2 some stuff have weird damage like the halftruck is more powerfull than the bunker Oo...

#3 Please make the troops more distinguishable...Just change the sizes on some of the body(make them bulky like dawn of war units) parts or make some good team coloring...Impossible to distinguish between troops...
Also...Imo you should totally make a few models for buildings than can be captured and just spread them all over the place instead of tons of vehicles everywhere.

#4 make troops bigger overall so little map bumps wont prevent them from firing at others,ATM they are so small that small map bumps you cant even see, abstract fire!

#5 IMO there should be no flag.
I think the best would be if you just had to kill all the enemy troops.
Making a single flag be the target means you only have to assault one place and most of the map becomes redundant.

Here are my suggestions:
Make it kill all troops as oppose to kill radar,make troops easier to distinguish and make them bigger overall.
Either make maps that have tons of structures or make your lua spread a lot of structures.
allow more units.
having 12 units is ok but it seems to be like its too little with how the game is structured.
Allow like 40-50 units,make them move slower even in flanking mode and make capturing stuff smoother and easier.
There are also bugs with stuff sometimes not shooting...
Also vehicles have way to big acceleration and break rates and they should not be allowed to turn in place so they feel more realistic,atm they just feel like flash tanks.

Overall i think this is an excellent beta but needs a bit more focus on how its gonna be played.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 26 Dec 2010, 04:20

Thanks for the feed back gota! :-) Could you clarify a few things?

1) Auto load, is definitely something I could look into. Sounds like a good idea.

2)The half truck damage was more than the bunker? That sounds like a legit balance issue, but different weapons affect the various unit types. Could you be more specific on the situation that you are referring to?

3a) I am playing with various forms to help give the unit types easy identifiers. I guess the bar on the bottom might not be enough. Each model has different parts, but it might be so minute of a difference that it is unnoticeable. I will try to come up with something better, maybe on/offable unit type icons?


3b) Spawning buildings to capture as well is on my to do list, but i think ill make it a mod option on the frequency of spawn-able types.


4) I'll see what I can do about that. I have not experience it too much myself though. Could you recall map(s) were you on and what kind of weapons did it effect? I like the scale small because is creates a large battle field, and the game isn't about a large robots (yet, those may come however).

5) What flag? Do you mean the radar? There are several game modes to play with besides kill the radar (Demolition). Maybe you would like to try those too? "Make it kill all troops as oppose to kill radar" this is currently game option 1 or the default.

6) "There are also bugs with stuff sometimes not shooting..." I'll keep my eyes out. If you know of anything more specific please share.

7) "vehicles have way to big acceleration and break rates and they should not be allowed to turn in place so they feel more realistic" Okay I'll see if adjusting them makes them feel more realistic.

Once again, I appreciate the feed back.
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Gota
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Gota » 26 Dec 2010, 18:49

No problem im happy to see you take it in good spirit.
I would love to play a good tactical game on the spring engine, finally.

About troops I still think that if you make troopers bulkier like in dawn of war, it will be much eaiser to make them easier to identify.
I know that it gives them a slighty more caricature like look but i think being able to differentiate units on the battlefield with a quick glance is one of the most important things in an rts or a fast tactical game.

Sorry about the radar thing,yes i noticed it later.
Thing is if your only gonna have 12 people its a bit boring and means most of the map, even the smaller maps are unused.
This means either adjusting the unit sizes makign them bigger or making tiny maps specific for this mod.
Just on standard 8x8 maps with 12 units gam seems....i dont know unfocused...
your troops jsut randomly roam until they find the enemy and the interaction is also pretty quick while the distances that you might have between units are huge.
Its not very exhilarating to have tiny 1-2 men battles until your few units are spent.

I totally think that by making or just trying out 3 changes the game would feel way better.
1)Increasing unit sized and making them easier to distinguish.
Increasing the max amount up to 4 times the max and slowing down speeds overall and speed differences between the 3 modes.
You dont have to do it as default you can just add it for your next beta as mod options and we can try it out and see how it plays...

Max troop numbers and speeds can easily be mod options.
For now make the troop numbers imo have a very high limit that way players can try it out and see what feels good and give some feedback.
Vehicle issue is easily fixable by changing some of the stats and is not a biggy.

I was refering to a game we had on brazilian battlefield.
these maps were designed for a cetain unit size for which small bumps dont matter and do not effect gameplay.
When your units are muc hsmaller suddenly those small bumps do start to matter.
I know that many game devs in spring want to make sizes that are not "TA sizes" but i think that there is nothing wrong in conforming to ta sizes since most maps and cameras were designed for such sizes.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 26 Dec 2010, 19:02

for 1v1 an 8x8 is probably best. I have not yet played on a 3v3 or 4v4 on any map. My issue with more than 12 guys is it starts to become less about individual units and more about numerical superiority. I would like to see how a medium map would play with 8+ players.
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Karl
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Karl » 26 Dec 2010, 22:08

How about Z Style gameplay?

Players starts of with a Fort and the map is scattered with Factorys
and there gives random flag that represnts a zone wich is a territory
Destroying Enemys HQ or getting all Flags would the player/team win the game
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 26 Dec 2010, 22:44

could be a possible game mode. i havent played Z so id need some help.
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Karl
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Karl » 26 Dec 2010, 23:11

bobthedinosaur wrote:could be a possible game mode. i havent played Z so id need some help.
I could make quick some Buildings and shit for you
for the Z like gameplay
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 26 Dec 2010, 23:26

okay. could you also explain how the game play works in some more details
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Karl
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Karl » 26 Dec 2010, 23:51

bobthedinosaur wrote:okay. could you also explain how the game play works in some more details

Also Each Player got its Own Fort instead of Commander or whatever (Like on TA No Com = Player lost)

The Fort can build (One at a time?) infantrys, defense and vehicles/tanks

Each flag got an Cubic Territory wich varies from Size
And some of them got a Factory with some defense/tanks/vehicle to occupy (not always)

The more Territory the player got the faster is the buildspeed it just cost time

there is also scattered around a Box of grenade wich an specific infantry can carry and throw it (Explosive box is explosive)
Afaik there gives no real Rock Paper Sciscors balance

and if a building is destroyed a vehicle (named crane) can repair it

Also there gives Afaik no teching this means Factory can build everything

There gives a building named Radar wich i dont know what it does

if the Player captured a flag All the neutral buildings will be on their Hand captured flag can be taked from enemy wich gives same effect

i will not go to bridge since spring can't handle it afaik
i think i have covered everything up it might be that i am missing something

Edit: Also on occupied jeep there gives a chance to "kick" off the Driver and make it occuipyable for others
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 27 Dec 2010, 02:10

Well some of these can be do able, such as factories. but I think that others, such as the kicking units out of the jeeps might be harder with out some special coding, but if any one is up to the job I could possibly put it in there.
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yuritch
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by yuritch » 27 Dec 2010, 09:39

There was no on-map teching in Z, but there was campaign progression which unlocked better units in factories.

Radar functioned like, well, radar. If you had one, you could see enemy units on the minimap. You could see them on the main screen in any case, since there was no fog of war and all of the map was constantly visible, but minimap made it easier to command your own units while keeping track on enemy advance.

The Fort usually could build everything any factory type on that map could.

Factories were specialized as Robot (infantry) or Vehicle (vehicles), and there were Repair factories, too (damaged veh drives in, gets out fully repaired). Robot and Vehicle factories (and the Fort) could also build turrets, of which there was a limit of 4 per "territory". Turrets could only be placed in the same "territory" the factory that built them was.

Most maps had rivers, ponds and other such features impassable to vehicles, but passable to infantry (except lava rivers on some maps). Vehicles could cross them using bridges (which could be destroyed and later repaired using a crane).

Early game was a wild rush to claim as much as possible as fast as possible, because every player started with 1 "territory" only (containing his Fort) and some squads of inf to capture land. There usually was a lot of empty vehicles and turrets around, which could be captured and sometimes rushed straight for the enemy fort for a quick win.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 29 Dec 2010, 06:39

Okay. I need some feed back.

Carrepairer and I are talking about changing the dead spec system for players in between rounds currently if you and all of your allies are dead, you get a los view from a ghosted non control able unit in the sky to act as a global los. However it is kind of buggy as it doesn't get all the nook and crannys and it is easy to miss action most of the map. It also sometimes gives away some los in mid game revealing enemies when you shouldn't be able to see, but is probably fixable.

Any ways we need to know does the current system work okay if we just expanded it to more of the map so players waiting for the next round to start could see more of the map sound reasonable.

The alternative was my idea of giving dead players a ghosted hovering air unit that they could pilot around to watch the game untill the next round started.

BTW: for those who leave before the next round ever starts. The game doesn't end when your team is wiped out, the game resets once one team wins the round....
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Gota
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Gota » 29 Dec 2010, 08:38

BoB the differance in speeds and armor between the 3 different move modes is done via lua?
Also would you mind if i did a small mutator just to try out my proposed changes?
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 29 Dec 2010, 20:17

make a mutator? go ahead. but you might want to use the svn. many things have changed since the 002 release. also to change the scale of the units you have to go into the scripts files and recompile all the scripts with (65536 * x) x being what you scaling them by. that way all the animations are adjusted.

the stance and fire control is actually all done in bos/cob with lua toggles. kind of messy if you don't like/ know bos/cob.
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Pxtl
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by Pxtl » 29 Dec 2010, 20:52

Alternate, Z-like game: see NetPanzer.

Z was based on 1v1 gameplay - you each have a fort and you grab turf.

NetPanzer is designed for FFA gameplay, with late-joiners even. In NetPanzer, each player spawns with a complete stack of troops in 1 base, and can grab as many bases as they like, generally spreading themselves very thin. When a player is eliminated from the game, they respawn at a random location and start grabbing turf again from there. Obviously this design has it's flaws, but it was an interesting attempt to merge RTS concepts with FPS-deathmatch concepts. Victory is awarded when you take X % of the map, or you achieven N eliminations, depending on game mode.

on Z: different factories had different levels which determined how powerful the units they could build were - L1 facs could only make a simple jeep or grunts. There were also destructible walls (could be mimicked by gaia creeps) that would slow down your initial land-grabs often, meaning that certain territories would take extra time for the initial capturing.

As in Kernel Panic (inspired somewhat by Z) the only resource for a factory was *time* - how long a unit took to build. If a fac was captured mid-construction, the new player got the half-finished work done on the existing units (obvious workaround was to cancel and restart construction just before you lost something). Facs even had a big countdown timer on the model showing you how long until completion.

Z Facs could build turrets - if you told a factory to build a turret instead of a mobile, the turret would live in a little GUI-box in the corner until you told the fac to place it. It could place it anywhere within the fac's territory.

One feature nobody likes to talk about in Z - the more territories you owned, the faster *all* your factories built. So even a territory with nothing in it was important to capture since it would speed up your factories. This made the game a ferocious positive-feedback loop... that actually worked in the game's favour. The game was never moribund - once a player took the advantage, it was *over*. No tedious demolition of his final defenses, just use your disgustingly huge economic advantage to crush him under a mass of violent metal.

Nobody wants you to include that feature, though.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by bobthedinosaur » 30 Dec 2010, 05:05

Well we run into an issue with factories, in Contact, vehicles are piloted by men. So yeah you can build 100 vehicles, but you only get 4 -16 men. Some thing I was thinking of was drones, that could captured and added, however I think factories building units would be counter to what contact is, which is a real time tactics game, and not so much a base/ army building game. Maybe a game mode can be rigged up so players get a construction unit for defenses and some drone factories can be plopped to be captured. But I see the limited units as their own critical resources.
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yuritch
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Re: Contact - beta 002 Released... happy holidays...

Post by yuritch » 30 Dec 2010, 07:21

Z solved this problem by providing 1 most basic inf robot as driver with every newly built tank or turret (that robot came in squads of 3 if built by robot fac).
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