Kapital v012 - Page 2

Kapital v012

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zwzsg
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by zwzsg » 26 Apr 2009, 16:59

They are too detailed. Icons are meant to be iconic. I would go instead with WZ's suggestion (save for the rock, which needs to be round and not potato).
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smoth
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by smoth » 26 Apr 2009, 17:32

potato paper scissors just sounds odd..
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng » 28 Apr 2009, 16:44

potato beats everything
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Sertse
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Sertse » 29 Apr 2009, 03:34

iirc, the original "4th item" in RPS that beats everything is called dynamite?
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zwzsg
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by zwzsg » 29 Apr 2009, 04:22

4th item is the well, in which scissor and rock fall, but that can be covered by paper.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by KDR_11k » 29 Apr 2009, 08:59

zwzsg wrote:4th item is the well, in which scissor and rock fall, but that can be covered by paper.
I think that's just a replacement for the rock in some cultures.
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Beherith
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Beherith » 29 Apr 2009, 09:58

Image
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Warlord Zsinj
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Warlord Zsinj » 29 Apr 2009, 13:15

Image
screw you all
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Google_Frog
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Google_Frog » 29 Apr 2009, 14:17

Image

On-topic though 5 units to chose from could make the game more interesting if their relationships were easy to see. Although idk because I haven't had a chance to try this yet.
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zwzsg
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by zwzsg » 29 Apr 2009, 14:52

Excuse me but in which way the scissor win over the axe?
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Google_Frog
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Google_Frog » 29 Apr 2009, 15:20

zwzsg wrote:Excuse me but in which way the scissor win over the axe?
No idea.

Just played a few games and here's some feedback:
  • I think using models that look like rock, paper or scissors would make things simpler to learn. Also minimap icons are needed.
  • Rock looks UP. It's slower than the other units which gives it a disadvantage and it's also bad in combat. It has no chance of hitting paper and has trouble hitting scissors. Although with changing costs it's viable even if only for income.
  • Because of the inbalances in speed and group size etc.. it could be a good idea to make all the units identical and use special damages. This would be if you wanted to simplify the game to focus on the economic aspect.
  • Use bad target categories for better unit AI.
  • Some kind of simple window showing exchange rates is needed. The console price display is hard to follow and makes chat impossible.
  • One game we got to the point where noone had any money and everything was worth 0. This made it impossible to build anything.
  • Using the exchange rate info it's very easy to see which unit your opponent is starting with and build it's counter. Taken to the extreme noone would make anything first. I suggest making the exchange rate change after a unit is completed instead of when it's started. This would also fix the previous problem as a unit at worth 0 would be free to build.
  • The cost system gadget broke one game. I think it was to do with selling a damaged unit.
  • The sell tooltip should include current sell price at 90% return.
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Nemo
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Nemo » 29 Apr 2009, 16:50

Thanks for the feedback.

The exchange rate window and tooltip are just because I'm not a good lua coder, and couldn't make those work. I'll see about fixing that up soonish, there's plenty of code to borrow from at this point.

Icons will come.

I wanted to set up a system of soft counters to keep the combat aspect of it more engaging (ie, micro unit handling skills vs macro economic skills should be fairly balanced), so I'd rather avoid making them all clone units and use special damages. The whole point of the design is that the balance more or less adapts to any problems of unit abilities. Obviously they're not set in stone at this point, but this is a harder system to predict in terms of what unit abilities should be, I think, than a fixed-price system.

I had a reason for changing cost when the unit starts, but I can't remember now, so I'll poke at it and see if it can be stuck on the end again. Alternatively, I could do a fixed-time check rather than change it on unitcreated/finished, so there's more 'fog' about what is getting built at any given time.

I suppose I can add a small income so the 'empty' situations aren't as devastating. Or have a gadget revalue units/add more capital to the system if everybody is at 0 and unit worth is bottomed out.

Most importantly - is this any fun to play? I'm interested in the idea from a fairly pedantic game design view, but if it isn't fun, I need to rework it pretty seriously.
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Saktoth
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Saktoth » 29 Apr 2009, 17:27

As soon as you sell anything the enemy knows this and can simply attack with his full 1k metal force. Since the only way to really turn a profit is to sell en-masse, which leaves you defenseless, the game comes down to micro.

The only way you could make a profit in my mind is if you burn your starting metal, hope he is too cowardly to attack, and if the game isnt over in the micro fights by then, wait till the unit costs start dropping towards 0 and try to make a profit with those margins.

More experienced players than myself may dispute this if they disagree?
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by bobthedinosaur » 29 Apr 2009, 17:39

so are you going to add a lizard and spock then?
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Gota
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Gota » 29 Apr 2009, 17:46

Would be cool if the game was stripped of micro imo..
Like units taking a long time to die and being slow...
That way there is more time to asses the situation and also sell...
ATM units move very fast but are built very slow so selling unit is a death sentence indeed...
and maybe they shouldn't die when being built and the lab is under attack?

Right now the economy shift you can do(selling) is very rapid but the speed at which u can shift unit types(build more) is slow..
And of course u lose units from battles very fast in comparison as well..
SO imo either speed up building of units,or slow down selling of units and raise hp.

Hmm about the build pics...would be easier for noobs to have the build pics of how the actual units look and a text on them saying what they are..
Last edited by Gota on 29 Apr 2009, 17:47, edited 1 time in total.
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smoth
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by smoth » 29 Apr 2009, 17:47

lol, look yan fixed your design for you! what genius!



I vote we change air or sponge to fapp hand.
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by bobthedinosaur » 29 Apr 2009, 19:00

i just made a matrix for a 25 point system. but a 25 unit RPS system might be a little too confusing.
looks likes this

Code: Select all

#	+	+	+	+	+	+	+	+	+	+	+	+		-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25		2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24
2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1		3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25
3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2		4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1
4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3		5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2
5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4		6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3
6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5		7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4
7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6		8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5
8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7		9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6
9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8		10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7
10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9		11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8
11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10		12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9
12	14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11		13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10
13	15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12		14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11
14	16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13		15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12
15	17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14		16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13
16	18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15		17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14
17	19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16		18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15
18	20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17		19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16
19	21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18		20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17
20	22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19		21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18
21	23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20		22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19
22	24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21		23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20
23	25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22		24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21
24	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23		25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22
25	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24		1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23

Edit: and smoths right. air is definitely a fap hand
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zwzsg
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by zwzsg » 28 May 2009, 00:56

bobthedinosaur wrote:Edit: and smoths right. air is definitely a fap hand
And what is the sky made of? Now you understand what Emmanuel meant with his famous words.



Here is a Market Force gadget that use gl.Text instead of Spring.Echo:
Attachments
game_marketForces.lua
(11.04 KiB) Downloaded 103 times
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Neddie
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by Neddie » 28 May 2009, 04:19

Since you didn't ask me, I haven't made any real icons, but here are some quick modifications of the ones bob put up. Remember that icons should be power of two in size and should have a limited palette, though not necessarily black and white. Also remember that looking at them here is nothing like looking at them in game. I generally would keep the icons from three to five shades, plus transparency. These should be fine for placeholders, judge them after they are in game and you can move along from there.
Attachments
quickscissors.png
quickscissors.png (16.58 KiB) Viewed 1273 times
quickrock.png
quickrock.png (19.45 KiB) Viewed 1277 times
quickpaper.png
quickpaper.png (14.23 KiB) Viewed 1275 times
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bobthedinosaur
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Re: Kapital v012

Post by bobthedinosaur » 28 May 2009, 16:56

where can i find the newest version?
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