Balanced Annihilation V6.6

[1v0ry_k1ng]

i think another part of the kbot weakness is the long build time of AK/PW in comparison to flash; you get 3 ak to the flash, but building 3 ak takes about 50% longer and 250% more energy

[TheFatController]

Personally, I'd love a toggle-button for the laser-units (gator, ak, etc.) to switch them such that their primary weapon becomes a fake-missile with no range so they automatically close to point-blank, and the laser becomes a secondary-weapon.

Problem with a fake primary weapon is the attack circle and reload time gets reported wrong

[KDR_11k]

Meh, the reported reload time is the slowest reloading weapon, if the fakemissile has 0 reloadtime then it doesn't matter. Also the range can be adjusted with COB.

[Klopper]

IMHO reasonable changes for t1 kbots:

-Getting rid of (or at least reducing) horrible chain exploding (especially for Peewees/AKs)

-Getting rid of open weapon script for Hammers

-faster aiming for Hammers/Thuds

-maybe slight range buff for Hammers/Thuds

-maybe minimal increase for Storm/Rocko rocket speed (good for better hitting stuff like moving Stumpies, but still useless for hitting faster moving stuff like Flashes as it should be)

Also, atm only Zeus are using improved visual lightning effect, Dragon Claw and Panther are not.

[MR.D]

IMO a cool feature that would be nice for all units is if they could pre-aim at a target if its in radar range, but still only be allowed to fire once in its actual weapon range.

If the unit is radar blind and can't see the radar blip or have a clear visual it would function normally and wait to aim once in regular visual mode within its weapon's range.

But if the unit has a radar blip to see, its turret would begin to zero in on its closest target giving the ranged units a tactical advantage.

I wonder if such a thing is possible, but basically I think it could work by giving each unit a second weapon that has a range slightly longer than its weapon range that is empty or does no damage and plays no animation, then each unit can have its weapon tracked and ready before it gets into firing range.

[REVENGE]

IMO a cool feature that would be nice for all units is if they could pre-aim at a target if its in radar range, but still only be allowed to fire once in its actual weapon range.

If the unit is radar blind and can't see the radar blip or have a clear visual it would function normally and wait to aim once in regular visual mode within its weapon's range.

But if the unit has a radar blip to see, its turret would begin to zero in on its closest target giving the ranged units a tactical advantage.

I wonder if such a thing is possible, but basically I think it could work by giving each unit a second weapon that has a range slightly longer than its weapon range that is empty or does no damage and plays no animation, then each unit can have its weapon tracked and ready before it gets into firing range.

I specifically asked about this and was told that it could be done via lua. Not a priority for me, but someone could look into it.

[Wingflier]

The problem with gators-v-stumpies is that gators have to be micro'd into point-blank range to maximize their damage. When fighting flashes they do fine because the flashes rush into close range anyways - but stumpies fire from a little further away so they can more easily take down the gators. Personally, I'd love a toggle-button for the laser-units (gator, ak, etc.) to switch them such that their primary weapon becomes a fake-missile with no range so they automatically close to point-blank, and the laser becomes a secondary-weapon. Yes, you could fake it with Lua, but Lua would mean having constant polling and move-orders instead of the advantages of using the built in "attack" AI.

ORRRR you could use Micro.

Pretty soon there will be so many LUA Widgets in this game, you won't even have to play. You'll just start the game, activate all the scripts, and watch your commander simultaneously build a base, create an army, and destroy the enemy in a beautiful and dazzling display of pure mathematical perfection.

I don't mean to be picky, but some of the things people build LUAs for are just ridiculous.

Anyways, back on topic.

I read about 6 pages back and didn't see anything about it, but I don't know if any of this has actually been covered yet.

1. The static air to ground missiles seem to miss a lot. I am told this is because of a Spring client update, but that BA hasn't been updated to incorporate this change. Please fix.

2. I am still seeing (in many cases) the noselfpwn string not having any effect when units fire in close proximity to themselves. The units I have seen own themselves include, but are not limited too, bulldogs, flashes, goliaths, and levelers. While I realize that it could be argued that this is a micro issue, it seems a bit unfair to run a cheap T1 unit up to a goliath one by one and watch it own itself. Not much micro can do here. Please fix.

3. A lot of people have been insisting that the thud/hammer turret turnrate be increased to make them more useful/worth building. All things considered, probably not a bad idea.

Wing

[adin_panther]

ORRRR you could use Micro.

Pretty soon there will be so many LUA Widgets in this game, you won't even have to play. You'll just start the game, activate all the scripts, and watch your commander simultaneously build a base, create an army, and destroy the enemy in a beautiful and dazzling display of pure mathematical perfection.

I don't mean to be picky, but some of the things people build LUAs for are just ridiculous.

Agreed.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

arm beamer costs less than HLLT
has longer range
has 100 more dps (400 vs 300)
and only 300 less hp

why build the HLLT :/

I'm pretty sure the Beamer can't fire again until its beamtime expires, so it really takes 0.15 s to reload, not 0.1 s -> only 267 DPS.

Beamer is only useful for 2 reasons:
1) Outranges LLT
2) Really low BT means you can repair it REALLY fast, for free.

I am almost certain the HLLT has more DPS.

wrong; spawn a beamer and HLLT next to eachother and the HLLT survives on about 60hp; since it has 210 more hp, stands to reason that the beamer has a higher dps (as well as a higher range and lower cost) - boo!

[Gota]

I think you will get the same response as others did...
People like having unbalanced units and buildings...
Some think it somehow interferes with fun when there are no units which are outright better than others.

These units/turrets are called main battle units/turrets and are at the core of BA's balance system.

[ginekolog]

+1 bout selfdamage BUG:

Even my corvets were damaging themselves when firing ath units on close range.

How is THAT possbile?

[Pxtl]

@Wingflier - there is fun micro and annoying micro. Rocko-dodging is fun-micro. D-gunning is fun micro. Telling every single laser unit in a horde of Gators to get into point-blank range is annoying micro. It's tedious and not-fun. It's like manually ordering every unit to attack, instead of being able to use the "Fight" command and sending them at the enemy. It's about as much fun as manually managing your metal-makers.

@ivory_king - how close do you spawn them? Remember the laser-damage-falloff. Remember that the HLLT, by virtue of its shorter range, has a steeper damage-curve than the beamer. Plonk them at point-blank range and the HLLT would win.

[Gota]

Pxtl is right.

[Pxtl]

Pxtl is right.

[Gota]

[BeefofAges]

Pretty soon there will be so many LUA Widgets in this game, you won't even have to play. You'll just start the game, activate all the scripts, and watch your commander simultaneously build a base, create an army, and destroy the enemy in a beautiful and dazzling display of pure mathematical perfection.

If this was true, AIs wouldn't be as awful as they are.

If you don't like automation, you're not just playing the wrong game, you're playing in the wrong engine. Go play Starcraft.

Widgets just let you delegate repetitive tasks to your computer so that you can focus on real strategy.

As for T1 kbots, I do think they could use a little improvement, but I think any improvements should be made very cautiously. It's easy to over-improve a unit to the point where it becomes way too powerful.

[el_matarife]

If this was true, AIs wouldn't be as awful as they are.

If you don't like automation, you're not just playing the wrong game, you're playing in the wrong engine. Go play Starcraft.

Widgets just let you delegate repetitive tasks to your computer so that you can focus on real strategy.

True, there's a big difference between tactics and strategy. That's why in most games the AI can only really compete with a human if given cheating advantages like extra resources. So far, all the Lua widgets do is replace some tactical stuff or economy management stuff, or make you fight the interface less. They'll help you, but on their own they can't win for you.

Anyway, these widgets aren't a substitute for actual micromanagement and do a worse job than a human in most cases besides a few like metal maker management where you're literally not fast enough to do it well. A real human is going to see opportunities a computer will not, for instance witness a fully microed raid of scout vehicles versus an automated one. A human will use other buildings for cover, or be able to guess how an enemy might try to coral him and bust out. A computer can't do that.

[Gota]

IF an AI was developed for a specific mod i don't see why AI wouldn't become much better at playing that mod.
It could have tons of harcoded things and it would work much better i think.

[Doxs]

I have not read the entire thread so i dont know if someone has reported this yet, but I find a few units and unit types missing in the game.

Specifically the following units:

The old mobile long range plasma cannon tanks built in the T3 factory.
The ships with the same long range plasma cannons.

Cant remember from what mod and Im at work, but it was a videly played mod last year. (AA/BA 3.* or something?)

I also find that T2 fighter screens is just about the only thing that might help you against a large scale air attack, especially in commander end games.

Therefore Id like to see a floating or a submerged T2 air factory that can be built by seaplane construction units where you can build T2 aircraft, or perhaps T2 amphibious fighters.

Im not picky about the implementation, I just think sea based players really need to have the ability to field T2 fighters. The T1 seaplane fighters might help against a T1 attack of mediocre size, but they are utterly worthless against a proper T2 attack.

I also think it would be cool if we could get floating plasma shields, today a seabased players economy is rather safe from plasma weapons like berthas, but the factories and other visible structures are easy prey once scouted.

To sum things up, T2 fighters for seabased players would be awesome and if I had to pick one thing to add, this would be it!
Long range plasma tanks and boats would be cool, especially if combined with floating plasma shields.

Not as necessary things, but fun to have would be floating T2 walls, advanced underwater fusions, underwater targeting facility, underwater popup cannons for general defence, just like the land based ones etc.

Oh, I almost forgot, enable the underwater tag for the Dgun, the com is annoyingly vulnerable underwater without any means of ever defending itself...

Regards
/Doxs

[el_matarife]

IF an AI was developed for a specific mod i don't see why AI wouldn't become much better at playing that mod.
It could have tons of harcoded things and it would work much better i think.

If that was true, why aren't AIs totally dominant in most RTSes instead of reliant on cheats to provide a "challenge" in most cases? (Challenge in quotes because honestly, most RTS are not challenging even with cheats.)

I have not read the entire thread so i dont know if someone has reported this yet, but I find a few units and unit types missing in the game.
Specifically the following units:
The old mobile long range plasma cannon tanks built in the T3 factory.
The ships with the same long range plasma cannons.
Cant remember from what mod and Im at work, but it was a videly played mod last year. (AA/BA 3.* or something?)

These were removed a long time ago, in Absolute Annihilation 2.2, and have never been in BA since BA was forked from AA after this change took place. When you say last year, I think you mean Sep 09, 2006 when AA 2.2 was released.